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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Talking to non GC people

516 replies

Sausagenbacon · 05/01/2026 08:13

I've been chatting to a few people recently about gender issues, and their opinion runs roughly like this ' we should all listen to each other, and not be so unpleasant. But of course, men shouldn't be in women's sports'
Which begs the question that, if GC people hadn't been 'unpleasant' men would have been firmly in women's sports.
So, should I be pleased that public opinion has shifted slightly, or should I be banging my head against the wall?

OP posts:
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28
Greyskybluesky · 08/01/2026 00:48

SoftBalletShoes · 08/01/2026 00:44

Yes, well, there are extremists at both ends of the argument, and I think both are ridiculous.

Ah right, it's just that you somehow failed to mention trans extremists in your original post, preferring instead to focus solely on the "anti trans lobby". Good that you've clarified it now though.

SoftBalletShoes · 08/01/2026 00:46

CassOle · 08/01/2026 00:24

'No bad actor would take all the hormones and make himself look so feminine and have a mastectomy and grow his hair and look SO much like a biological woman simply for the purposes of using the women's loos and changing rooms!'

Erm...

Top surgery is a type of mastectomy. What's the issue?

SoftBalletShoes · 08/01/2026 00:44

Greyskybluesky · 08/01/2026 00:24

This is a common sense viewpoint - no to non-transitioned men but yes to TW who are post-transition - but again, the anti-trans lobby won't have it.

You think it's just the anti-trans ( ie GC) lobby who won't have it? I've got news for you. The trans lobby won't have it either. They think it's transphobic.

Yes, well, there are extremists at both ends of the argument, and I think both are ridiculous.

SoftBalletShoes · 08/01/2026 00:43

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/01/2026 00:34

And they still haven’t got round to posting the post on it that they “mistakenly posted” on this thread! How interesting.

It's almost like I'm also doing other things and now cba!!! But you read all sorts of dark and sinister motives into that if you like!

SoftBalletShoes · 08/01/2026 00:42

Greyskybluesky · 08/01/2026 00:33

I thought i recognised this argument. To recap: transitioned or hormone-taking men are a "type" of woman. But not a biological woman. But still a type of woman.

I don't think the poster realises that's deemed to be transphobic.

Edited

Only to extremists at the other end of the argument. I don't deal in extremes.

NotBadConsidering · 08/01/2026 00:39

The same poster who said men were a type of women, then used experiencing menopause as proof they were a woman.

Bizarre logic.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/01/2026 00:34

FlirtsWithRhinos · 07/01/2026 23:59

This is the link without the typo

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5472015-should-we-be-polite-to-racists-genocide-supporters-anti-semites-and-nazis

@SoftBalletShoes clearly should have gone to specsavers themself!

And they still haven’t got round to posting the post on it that they “mistakenly posted” on this thread! How interesting.

Greyskybluesky · 08/01/2026 00:33

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/01/2026 00:29

Yes, same poster.

I thought i recognised this argument. To recap: transitioned or hormone-taking men are a "type" of woman. But not a biological woman. But still a type of woman.

I don't think the poster realises that's deemed to be transphobic.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/01/2026 00:29

Greyskybluesky · 08/01/2026 00:16

@SoftBalletShoes Oh hang on, aren't you the poster who kept saying in yesterday's now-deleted thread that trans identifying men are a "type of woman"?

Men are not a "type" of woman.

Yes, same poster.

Greyskybluesky · 08/01/2026 00:27

CassOle · 08/01/2026 00:24

'No bad actor would take all the hormones and make himself look so feminine and have a mastectomy and grow his hair and look SO much like a biological woman simply for the purposes of using the women's loos and changing rooms!'

Erm...

The whole argument is muddled, unworkable and all over the place

Greyskybluesky · 08/01/2026 00:24

This is a common sense viewpoint - no to non-transitioned men but yes to TW who are post-transition - but again, the anti-trans lobby won't have it.

You think it's just the anti-trans ( ie GC) lobby who won't have it? I've got news for you. The trans lobby won't have it either. They think it's transphobic.

CassOle · 08/01/2026 00:24

'No bad actor would take all the hormones and make himself look so feminine and have a mastectomy and grow his hair and look SO much like a biological woman simply for the purposes of using the women's loos and changing rooms!'

Erm...

FlirtsWithRhinos · 08/01/2026 00:18

SoftBalletShoes · 08/01/2026 00:05

I agree that trans women shouldn't be allowed in women's sports and I also think that only TW who have transitioned socially and medically (via hormones if not surgery) should be allowed in loos and changing rooms. I do not agree with self-ID and I think that a completed transition should be required to get a GC. By that I mostly mean a completed hormonal and social transition. Doesn't have to be surgery.

The GC lobby won't have it, but the hormone treatment turns men effectively into women for all practical purposes like safety. It dampens sex drive and gets rid of much muscle, replacing it with fat. (This is according to the "Feminising Therapy" page of The Mayo Clinic, which is the world's no. 1 hospital.)

I do NOT want to share sports or women-only spaces with big hairy regular men. However, I do not perceive any threat from the transitioned women whose photos I'm posting below as examples. They're post-hormones and I would never in a million years know that they were born men. To me, TW like this are as good as women when it comes to deciding who gets to use single spaces.

Where the hate comes in is this: The anti-trans lobby would NOT accept the women below in loos and changing rooms. They would tell them to use the men's, where they would be vulnerable to assault by regular men. I cannot imagine feeling threatened by the women posted below, and you wouldn't have a clue that they had been born men anyway.

Regular men shouldn't be allowed in women's spaces. The TW posted below are not regular men, and to tell them to go to men-only spaces is, in my view, hate. I mean just look at them - it's ridiculous to treat them like regular men and to view them in the same way as regular men.

They are genuine trans women. No bad actor would take all the hormones and make himself look so feminine and have a mastectomy and grow his hair and look SO much like a biological woman simply for the purposes of using the women's loos and changing rooms! To be against TW such as these is hate imo, but it's not hate to want to keep out regular men who want to self-ID into women's spaces.

This is a common sense viewpoint - no to non-transitioned men but yes to TW who are post-transition - but again, the anti-trans lobby won't have it. They are very authoritarian and want to send women like the ones in the photos below back to the men's spaces, and some of them, when you put forward this distinction, attack you for not being as intolerant and extreme as them.

That's a really sexist and reductive way of thinking about women.

Greyskybluesky · 08/01/2026 00:17

Why am I not surprised that those are the photos you chose...

Greyskybluesky · 08/01/2026 00:16

@SoftBalletShoes Oh hang on, aren't you the poster who kept saying in yesterday's now-deleted thread that trans identifying men are a "type of woman"?

Men are not a "type" of woman.

SoftBalletShoes · 08/01/2026 00:08

FlirtsWithRhinos · 07/01/2026 23:59

This is the link without the typo

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5472015-should-we-be-polite-to-racists-genocide-supporters-anti-semites-and-nazis

@SoftBalletShoes clearly should have gone to specsavers themself!

Thanks for fixing. I am actually wearing my old glasses right now as I can't find my current ones, so yes, I am currently in the "should have gone to Specsavers" bracket!

SoftBalletShoes · 08/01/2026 00:05

5128gap · 07/01/2026 23:01

You want to see GC people as a stereotype, thrown in with the far right, the intolerant, the ignorant, the hate filled. Because that makes it easy to dismiss anything they say, even when now and again, something might just seem to have a logic to it, and might actually cause you to pause and think.
Its more comfortable to divide the world into the good guys and the bad guys and allie with the ones youve chosen as good guys, unconditionally, because you align on most everything else.
But you're mistaken here. I'm far left politically. I'm the stereotype EDI, IP supporting, 'woke', social justice warrior type that gets laughed at and called a snowflake. I expect you and I would agree on far more than we'd disagree on.
But I don't believe men are women, or ever can be. Whatever they feel, whatever lengths they go to, they are men. And so they can't be treated as women. Not in sport, not in prisons, not in toilets. Not at all. Because I care about social justice for women, and I can't justify giving women's rights away to men.
If that makes me a frothing hater, in your eyes, that's too bad.

I agree that trans women shouldn't be allowed in women's sports and I also think that only TW who have transitioned socially and medically (via hormones if not surgery) should be allowed in loos and changing rooms. I do not agree with self-ID and I think that a completed transition should be required to get a GC. By that I mostly mean a completed hormonal and social transition. Doesn't have to be surgery.

The GC lobby won't have it, but the hormone treatment turns men effectively into women for all practical purposes like safety. It dampens sex drive and gets rid of much muscle, replacing it with fat. (This is according to the "Feminising Therapy" page of The Mayo Clinic, which is the world's no. 1 hospital.)

I do NOT want to share sports or women-only spaces with big hairy regular men. However, I do not perceive any threat from the transitioned women whose photos I'm posting below as examples. They're post-hormones and I would never in a million years know that they were born men. To me, TW like this are as good as women when it comes to deciding who gets to use single spaces.

Where the hate comes in is this: The anti-trans lobby would NOT accept the women below in loos and changing rooms. They would tell them to use the men's, where they would be vulnerable to assault by regular men. I cannot imagine feeling threatened by the women posted below, and you wouldn't have a clue that they had been born men anyway.

Regular men shouldn't be allowed in women's spaces. The TW posted below are not regular men, and to tell them to go to men-only spaces is, in my view, hate. I mean just look at them - it's ridiculous to treat them like regular men and to view them in the same way as regular men.

They are genuine trans women. No bad actor would take all the hormones and make himself look so feminine and have a mastectomy and grow his hair and look SO much like a biological woman simply for the purposes of using the women's loos and changing rooms! To be against TW such as these is hate imo, but it's not hate to want to keep out regular men who want to self-ID into women's spaces.

This is a common sense viewpoint - no to non-transitioned men but yes to TW who are post-transition - but again, the anti-trans lobby won't have it. They are very authoritarian and want to send women like the ones in the photos below back to the men's spaces, and some of them, when you put forward this distinction, attack you for not being as intolerant and extreme as them.

Talking to non GC people
Talking to non GC people
ScathingAngelAgrona · 08/01/2026 00:03

SoftBalletShoes · 07/01/2026 23:44

Edited

Apologies. The thread does exist.

Enough4me · 07/01/2026 23:59

Men in dresses aren't a minority group. They're just playing a dressing up game and at any point they can say that they are male and be believed because... they are male.

ScathingAngelAgrona · 07/01/2026 23:55

Heggettypeg · 07/01/2026 23:48

I'm getting Error 404 when I click on that link.

Me too.

Funny that.

BettyBooper · 07/01/2026 23:51

SoftBalletShoes · 07/01/2026 23:44

Edited

Oh so you are laughing and saying should have gone to Specsavers?

Good to know...

Heggettypeg · 07/01/2026 23:48

SoftBalletShoes · 07/01/2026 23:44

Edited

I'm getting Error 404 when I click on that link.

SoftBalletShoes · 07/01/2026 23:44

ScathingAngelAgrona · 07/01/2026 23:37

No such thread exists on Mumsnet.

Why am I not surprised?

No such thread exists? It's right here.

Should have gone to Specsavers! 🤣🤣🤣

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/amibeingunreasonable/5472015-should-we-be-polite-to-racists-genocide-supporters-anti-semites-and-nazis

ScathingAngelAgrona · 07/01/2026 23:37

SoftBalletShoes · 07/01/2026 22:11

I posted on the wrong thread! I thought I was writing on the thread Should we be polite to racists, genocide supporters, anti semites and Nazis?

Sorry!!

No such thread exists on Mumsnet.

Why am I not surprised?