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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can I change my caste?

96 replies

Tadpolesinponds · 01/01/2026 17:14

I've just come across this interesting piece of legal advice on whether it's possible for someone in India to change their caste. There are apparently "caste certificates", and the authorities carry out stringent checks when issuing a certificate. They don't accept self-declaration. There is nothing you can do to change your caste. Being a member of a disadvantaged caste can give you access to government aid, for instance, and for this reason lying about your caste or falsifying a caste certificate can lead to dismissal and even prosecution. But apparently in the UK we can't manage to have a single document which accurately says what sex someone is.
Can I Change My Caste?

OP posts:
TooBigForMyBoots · 01/01/2026 21:50

Tulcan · 01/01/2026 21:46

As are lots of things, I don’t think the op invented the caste system.

Of course the OP didn't invent the Caste system. I've no idea why you'd type that.Confused

SummerFeverVenice · 01/01/2026 21:49

MarvellousMonsters · 01/01/2026 17:59

Caste is as real as gender. Meaning it’s not real; it’s a set of made up rules based on outdated concepts and stereotypes. Sex, however, is real, it’s a biological fact. Caste and gender are made up nonsense concepts, sex is not. Can you not see the comparison?

Ummm. No caste is based on actual ethnic differences, proven by linguistic and genetic studies. It’s not comparable to gender which has zero biological basis:

https://genome.cshlp.org/content/11/6/994.full.pdf

https://genome.cshlp.org/content/11/6/994.full.pdf

Tulcan · 01/01/2026 21:46

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/01/2026 17:26

The Caste system is destructive and very damaging to women.

I don't understand your point.

As are lots of things, I don’t think the op invented the caste system.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 01/01/2026 21:45

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/01/2026 19:34

The enforcement of the Caste system in India does not protect the rights of oppressed classes. It operates to stop people from identifying out of oppressed classes to become actual human beings with fundamental human rights.

Edited

The Indian govt has measures to try to level up the people from the oppressed castes. It knows that abolishing castes on paper doesn't work, they continue to operate in practice, so it does the next best thing of trying to uplift the members of the oppressed castes. The certificate is to stop people from non-oppressed castes from identifying as a member of an oppressed caste to fraudulently claim levelling-up measures.

The parallels with white people identifying as Black and men identifying as women are clear.

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/01/2026 21:33

joeninetey · 01/01/2026 20:38

Should have the same over here, in the UK.

What is it about the Caste system that you want us to have in the UK?

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/01/2026 20:48

HoppityBun · 01/01/2026 20:36

No it doesn’t and the OP is not arguing that it does. The point is about self identification.

The Caste system is about keeping people down, not self ID. It is a classic, sexist, patriarchal system that hurts women most.

No matter their achievements, they will never escape their less than human, or even animal, status.

joeninetey · 01/01/2026 20:38

Should have the same over here, in the UK.

HoppityBun · 01/01/2026 20:36

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/01/2026 20:25

It doesn't make up for them being beaten, raped, murdered and enslaved, with impunity by other, "higher" castes. You might as well say the Taliban have got it right with their enforcement of single sex spaces.

It's not done to protect women. It is enforced as subjugation of, mostly poor, women and children.

No it doesn’t and the OP is not arguing that it does. The point is about self identification.

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/01/2026 20:25

Tadpolesinponds · 01/01/2026 19:51

Except that apparently some aid/benefits is available to people in certain disadvantaged castes.

It doesn't make up for them being beaten, raped, murdered and enslaved, with impunity by other, "higher" castes. You might as well say the Taliban have got it right with their enforcement of single sex spaces.

It's not done to protect women. It is enforced as subjugation of, mostly poor, women and children.

Tadpolesinponds · 01/01/2026 19:51

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/01/2026 19:34

The enforcement of the Caste system in India does not protect the rights of oppressed classes. It operates to stop people from identifying out of oppressed classes to become actual human beings with fundamental human rights.

Edited

Except that apparently some aid/benefits is available to people in certain disadvantaged castes.

OP posts:
soupyspoon · 01/01/2026 19:46

I would love to identify as retirement age and claim my state pension. Why not?

Tadpolesinponds · 01/01/2026 19:46

The Indian government have apparently taken strong measures, involving actual detailed checks by officials and the provision of accurate caste certificates, to prevent people from pretending that they're a different caste in order to access help and funding provided for members of that caste (on the grounds that they are disadvantaged). Pretending that you're a different caste, or falsifying a caste certificate, can be a criminal offence.
It is hugely easier to identify a person's sex than their caste (yes, I get that we in the West don't believe in caste). But we are being told that it's impossible to keep men out of women's spaces etc. because there's no way of working out whether someone's male or female. We don't even have a universally agreed definition of male and female anymore. The UK government was urged to keep the sex marker on one document, just one, accurate so that it would be possible, where necessary, to know for certain what someone's sex is (without a physical examination, and even then some transactivists don't believe that sex is determined by what the body looks like). They refused. The UK government wants to bring in identity cards. In countries like France, identity cards include sex. Presumably when these are brought in here it will be possible to choose the sex on your card? Since that's what happens with all our current official documentation. Should we try to campaign for accurate sex on identity cards? Or do we accept that legal sex is a matter of personal choice and can be changed on all documents at any time and for any or no reason? And that men can "change sex" to access courses and funding provided for women in areas where women are underrepresented? Or at the very least a man can access these if he has changed his official documents and more or less passes as a woman? A man who doesn't "change sex" risks prosecution for fraud in those circumstances. And then at what stage will the government bow to transactivist demands and accept that a man may be a woman biologically (due to taking hormones, having a female brain etc), and not just legally a woman?
Or would it be better just to do and say nothing and hope that the situation gradually goes back to normal as attitudes become less extreme and the trans agenda falls out of favour?

OP posts:
5128gap · 01/01/2026 19:44

I always find the best comparison to be age. Because it's very possible to 'feel' 20 years younger. In fact our feelings will be much more reliable given we will have actually experienced it. Its also much more scientifically justifiable given its possible to have a biological age less than your chronogical age. I've yet to have anyone explain why we can't self ID our age and we can our 'gender'.

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/01/2026 19:34

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 01/01/2026 17:40

The point is that govts can and do say "no" to people who want to identify into and out of oppressed classes. The UK govt is simply choosing not to say "no" to men pretending to women.

The enforcement of the Caste system in India does not protect the rights of oppressed classes. It operates to stop people from identifying out of oppressed classes to become actual human beings with fundamental human rights.

soupyspoon · 01/01/2026 18:38

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/01/2026 18:09

I get that both the Caste system and trans agenda are damaging to women. But the OP seems to be criticising(?) the UK government for not acting more like Indian government's enforcement of the Caste system.

OP might be, and I would agree that sex should not be something that governments can just pick and choose and name for yourself.

I think its more just the example of how made up things are treated compared to real things.

Its an interesting point

We could add into the discussio, which I know has been mentioned countless times on this bit of the forum, why you cant self identify your ethnicity. Why is that socially inappropriate? (given that ethnicity is no one thing in any case)

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/01/2026 18:09

murasaki · 01/01/2026 17:45

The caste system is destructive and very damaging to women.

So is the trans agenda.

The OP is making a valid point.

I get that both the Caste system and trans agenda are damaging to women. But the OP seems to be criticising(?) the UK government for not acting more like Indian government's enforcement of the Caste system.

MarvellousMonsters · 01/01/2026 17:59

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/01/2026 17:26

The Caste system is destructive and very damaging to women.

I don't understand your point.

Caste is as real as gender. Meaning it’s not real; it’s a set of made up rules based on outdated concepts and stereotypes. Sex, however, is real, it’s a biological fact. Caste and gender are made up nonsense concepts, sex is not. Can you not see the comparison?

murasaki · 01/01/2026 17:45

The caste system is destructive and very damaging to women.

So is the trans agenda.

The OP is making a valid point.

soupyspoon · 01/01/2026 17:43

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/01/2026 17:26

The Caste system is destructive and very damaging to women.

I don't understand your point.

I suppose the point is that another government has made a decision that a made up thing like caste, cannot be changed, its immutable.

Sex, which is not a made up thing, is apparently mutable. According to the UK government

It may not be comparing like with exact like but I get the point.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 01/01/2026 17:40

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/01/2026 17:26

The Caste system is destructive and very damaging to women.

I don't understand your point.

The point is that govts can and do say "no" to people who want to identify into and out of oppressed classes. The UK govt is simply choosing not to say "no" to men pretending to women.

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/01/2026 17:26

The Caste system is destructive and very damaging to women.

I don't understand your point.

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