Page 3 | The greatest shibboleth of all...the "trans child".

1984Now · 2025-12-28T13:34:44+00:00

More and more my mind is drawn as to how/why transgender ideology has succeeded. And not just partially, totally. Sure, there may be a re-righting of the ship, but I don't see any return to the pre-2012 (the year that Lionel Schriver identifies as when the ship hit the rocks) liberal consensus. So many things...trans rights is men's rights, rapid onset gender dysphoria, possible march thru the professions/institutions, the feral power of autogynephilia, suicidal empathy, the birth of a new religion and caste structure, cancel culture freezing criticism, the drive to trans humanism. And many more things. But things really clarified for me over a year ago when Helen Joyce was asked her opinion on this movement's implacable power. And she mentioned both the impossibility of anyone repenting publicly who'd invested themselves into gender ideology re their own children, or in response to children in their extended family, friends, colleagues, and critically admitting to themselves that they'd something so terrible. At that point, whether you were typically a very brave person who'd normally speak truth to power, or even someone with a generally well rounded pride in being a truthful honest person happy to speak up...so many shut up. So many...Schriver knew it was BS, but only started to speak up in 2016, four years after she realized how wrong this all was. JK Rowling took a lot of time. Linehan? Maybe he spoke up on day one, but he'd have been an absolute exception. And if Joyce is right, then societies total capitulating is less to do with my list above, and all to do with the concept of the trans child. For anyone, anonymous or a billionaire writer, to say "sorry, I'm sympathetic to children's plight, but there's no such thing as a trans child, just body dysmorphia", for anyone to say this to one's child, and critically any child they know, and children at large, would have required such bravery and sheer hard headedness, that I can't think of anyone other than Linehan who could have done it. Before you know it, 5 years have gone by, we're in the Great Awokening, the midst of social media changing everything, then into COVID and the explosion in trans ideology controlling the discourse. So, umpteen all very convincing reasons why trans ideology has flown, but what got it up in the air was (and still is) the shibboleth of the trans child. Once society looked the other way on this concept, medicine, academia, social sciences, schools all locked down the trans child as a concept that couldn't be questioned or even discussed quizzically, let alone disbelieved/dismissed, the die was cast. I do believe this is a big part as to why so many women have been instrumental in the bye that trans ideology has been given, women's inherent empathy has been weaponised by men in the movement for fetishistic readings (AGPs) or political reasons. Turn the clock back, society en masse chose not to affirm the trans child as inviolable shibboleth, the world would be very different today. Can things be righted? You can guess what my answer is as I respond to the thread on Streeting's puberty blocker trial...the trans child remains a total neo-religious icon to the modern left.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 28/12/2025 15:47

1984Now · 28/12/2025 15:21

Helen Joyce on this was one of my major peaks.
Not only will they not admit. They will remain the biggest proponents until their dying day.
As a well-known personality, you can come back from almost anything. MeToo villains have sought and won public re-acceptance, tax dodging, even being racist can be forgiven.
But to admit you practiced Transhausen By Proxy by, at best aggressive social transitioning, at worst, let your daughter lop her breasts off/become so medicalised she is infertile, anorgasmic, osteoporotic etc, is not just a step too far, it's a chasm that can't be bridged.
To admit fault here is a double jeopardy. Social ostracisation from all those who mean anything to you, the carnage of admitting being complicit in child harm. Your own.
I'm sure Streeting talks to his cabinet colleagues and wonders this about some of them. They'll be putting the biggest amount of pressure on him to run the PB trial, because his cancelling of it would mean he's directly criticising them.

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There's a reason children in schools, in care of the state & every single organisation that works with the young were relentlessly targeted by adult transactivists. Many for the grift but some because of the opportunities offered to them to access children - often without parental knowledge (see Mermaids, Surrey Pride, the NSPCC, drag queen story time and more).

We're not meant to point this out and are usually accused of being "right wing" as Labour peer Cashman alleged - that's how desperate some men are to silence those talking about safeguarding children.

It's that silencing that has allowed this to take hold in schools and made parenting vulnerable children much more difficult

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4954762-pushing-back-against-safeguarding

Pushing back against safeguarding | Mumsnet

Saying the quiet part out loud…. Michael Cashman has announced he is incensed by the right wing wanting safeguarding in schools and wants to push bac...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4954762-pushing-back-against-safeguarding

Original poster

1984Now · 28/12/2025 15:21

JellySaurus · 28/12/2025 15:04

Trans is moving through children and adolescents like anorexia and self-harm did. The difference being that both of the latter conditions were recognised as genuine mental health issues resulting from emotional problems. They are not considered idiopathic (I think that’s the right word) stand-alone conditions, nor are they considered natural, healthy, or in any way something to be encouraged. The sooner transgenderism is re-recognised as a mental health condition or a paraphilia, the better.

Like with anorexia and self-harm, trans-identifying is becoming less trendy, so there is likely to be less social contagion. However, I do think that, like with those conditions, it is here to stay, and we will have to stand up against its insidious mission creep, constantly and consciously. Even if the young people don’t buy into any more, they still have their own shibboleths: their trans friends and their detrans friends and their social need to be seen to Be Kind.

Many MNers have and are living with the shibboleth. It is often only thanks to MN that many of us have been able to react with calm, protective love, rather than with panicked affirmation. But there is a third class of parent: the vicarious celebrity living out the excitement of having a Special child. I wonder whether they will ever feel the need to backtrack.

Show quote history

Helen Joyce on this was one of my major peaks.
Not only will they not admit. They will remain the biggest proponents until their dying day.
As a well-known personality, you can come back from almost anything. MeToo villains have sought and won public re-acceptance, tax dodging, even being racist can be forgiven.
But to admit you practiced Transhausen By Proxy by, at best aggressive social transitioning, at worst, let your daughter lop her breasts off/become so medicalised she is infertile, anorgasmic, osteoporotic etc, is not just a step too far, it's a chasm that can't be bridged.
To admit fault here is a double jeopardy. Social ostracisation from all those who mean anything to you, the carnage of admitting being complicit in child harm. Your own.
I'm sure Streeting talks to his cabinet colleagues and wonders this about some of them. They'll be putting the biggest amount of pressure on him to run the PB trial, because his cancelling of it would mean he's directly criticising them.

OP posts:

JellySaurus · 28/12/2025 15:04

1984Now · 28/12/2025 14:39

I recall when all the trans ideologues told us that Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria was a lie, that trans kids coming out now had been buried in the past, that like dyslexia and left handedness, once the stigma was gone, trans would reach a natural visible level and we'd all go Some Kids Are Trans, Get Over It!
Well, if your experience is common, the ideologues are dead wrong. Trans identification amongst the young is in decline (backed up by a big recent study that shows numbers of students IDing as trans or NB in American unis are diminishing sharply).
Amazing isn't it? As the phenomenon shows signs of naturally declining in the young, Streeting is firing the starting gun for 1k kids to go on the PB trial.
Another "you couldn't make it up!" moment.

Edited

Show quote history

Trans is moving through children and adolescents like anorexia and self-harm did. The difference being that both of the latter conditions were recognised as genuine mental health issues resulting from emotional problems. They are not considered idiopathic (I think that’s the right word) stand-alone conditions, nor are they considered natural, healthy, or in any way something to be encouraged. The sooner transgenderism is re-recognised as a mental health condition or a paraphilia, the better.

Like with anorexia and self-harm, trans-identifying is becoming less trendy, so there is likely to be less social contagion. However, I do think that, like with those conditions, it is here to stay, and we will have to stand up against its insidious mission creep, constantly and consciously. Even if the young people don’t buy into any more, they still have their own shibboleths: their trans friends and their detrans friends and their social need to be seen to Be Kind.

Many MNers have and are living with the shibboleth. It is often only thanks to MN that many of us have been able to react with calm, protective love, rather than with panicked affirmation. But there is a third class of parent: the vicarious celebrity living out the excitement of having a Special child. I wonder whether they will ever feel the need to backtrack.

Original poster

1984Now · 28/12/2025 14:39

ProfessorRizz · 28/12/2025 13:43

I’ve taught for 20 years. Edit: in secondary schools 😅

First decade: one trans child, had an EHCP (then ‘statement of special needs’), barely coping in mainstream, born girl but insisted on boy. I now wonder if he might have had a genetic disorder which involved an element of DSD (was from another culture, possibly born in a non-Western country). Everyone accepted that this child would live as the opposite sex, probably permanently.

Second decade: countless ‘trans’ children, all autistic, every single one. Trans was an outward manifestation of inner distress and ‘not belonging’, especially present in (but not limited to) autistic teenage girls. Some have gone on to have gender-affirming ‘surgery’.

Entering my third decade of teaching, I’m seeing the dying embers. One or two sixth formers still insisting on opposite sex names (both autistic) but almost no presentation in Y7-11. It feels like a (wrong) solution to a problem we still haven’t worked out how to solve (how to help autistic children with interoceptive distress and bodily change).

Edited

I recall when all the trans ideologues told us that Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria was a lie, that trans kids coming out now had been buried in the past, that like dyslexia and left handedness, once the stigma was gone, trans would reach a natural visible level and we'd all go Some Kids Are Trans, Get Over It!
Well, if your experience is common, the ideologues are dead wrong. Trans identification amongst the young is in decline (backed up by a big recent study that shows numbers of students IDing as trans or NB in American unis are diminishing sharply).
Amazing isn't it? As the phenomenon shows signs of naturally declining in the young, Streeting is firing the starting gun for 1k kids to go on the PB trial.
Another "you couldn't make it up!" moment.

OP posts:

AgathaDanbury · 28/12/2025 14:20

ProfessorRizz · 28/12/2025 14:12

I am quite left wing, but it’s weirdly teaching that has opened my eyes to what’s happening, because I can never accept anything at face value. I also dislike the left’s propensity for assuming one issue is much like another: they’ve co-opted this issue under a general progressive banner which prevents them from seeing any potential negatives.

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'Left wing' and 'progressive' seem to often conceal startlingly bigoted views, particularly re: women, homophobia and anti-semitism.

Original poster

1984Now · 28/12/2025 14:19

ProfessorRizz · 28/12/2025 14:12

I am quite left wing, but it’s weirdly teaching that has opened my eyes to what’s happening, because I can never accept anything at face value. I also dislike the left’s propensity for assuming one issue is much like another: they’ve co-opted this issue under a general progressive banner which prevents them from seeing any potential negatives.

Show quote history

I'm a right voter, and also won't accept anything at face value. I know I can't ever vote left until so many tears of contrition have flowed to fill an ocean, but I also refuse to be "played" by "my side".
I do know one thing, trans ideology is both left and right, both right neo liberal (Prytzker Institute and trans humanism) and also liberal left (US Democrat Party, the whole spectrum from Theresa May, thru Mordaunt Miller Starmer Rayner Davey Polanski Swinney Sturgeon Corbyn Sultana), with the confected golden trans child at it's centre.

OP posts:

ProfessorRizz · 28/12/2025 14:12

1984Now · 28/12/2025 14:02

It's amazing, isn't it?
I'm not a left voter, but had the modet left/progressive elites told me that certain put upon groups would be lifted and helped and prioritised to get the very best out of their difficult lives, society would need to allocate resources, people would be championed. I'd have been on board with autism, spectrum disorders, physical disabilities all been given help by society above and beyond.
What did we get? A misinterpreting of one aspect of this, to both make their lives worse, and cave in women's rights.
You could not come up with a worst case scenario in a million years if you didn't know about this phenomenon to start.

Show quote history

I am quite left wing, but it’s weirdly teaching that has opened my eyes to what’s happening, because I can never accept anything at face value. I also dislike the left’s propensity for assuming one issue is much like another: they’ve co-opted this issue under a general progressive banner which prevents them from seeing any potential negatives.

Original poster

1984Now · 28/12/2025 14:02

ProfessorRizz · 28/12/2025 13:43

I’ve taught for 20 years. Edit: in secondary schools 😅

First decade: one trans child, had an EHCP (then ‘statement of special needs’), barely coping in mainstream, born girl but insisted on boy. I now wonder if he might have had a genetic disorder which involved an element of DSD (was from another culture, possibly born in a non-Western country). Everyone accepted that this child would live as the opposite sex, probably permanently.

Second decade: countless ‘trans’ children, all autistic, every single one. Trans was an outward manifestation of inner distress and ‘not belonging’, especially present in (but not limited to) autistic teenage girls. Some have gone on to have gender-affirming ‘surgery’.

Entering my third decade of teaching, I’m seeing the dying embers. One or two sixth formers still insisting on opposite sex names (both autistic) but almost no presentation in Y7-11. It feels like a (wrong) solution to a problem we still haven’t worked out how to solve (how to help autistic children with interoceptive distress and bodily change).

Edited

It's amazing, isn't it?
I'm not a left voter, but had the modet left/progressive elites told me that certain put upon groups would be lifted and helped and prioritised to get the very best out of their difficult lives, society would need to allocate resources, people would be championed. I'd have been on board with autism, spectrum disorders, physical disabilities all been given help by society above and beyond.
What did we get? A misinterpreting of one aspect of this, to both make their lives worse, and cave in women's rights.
You could not come up with a worst case scenario in a million years if you didn't know about this phenomenon to start.

OP posts:

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 28/12/2025 13:58

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OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 28/12/2025 13:50

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ProfessorRizz · 28/12/2025 13:43

I’ve taught for 20 years. Edit: in secondary schools 😅

First decade: one trans child, had an EHCP (then ‘statement of special needs’), barely coping in mainstream, born girl but insisted on boy. I now wonder if he might have had a genetic disorder which involved an element of DSD (was from another culture, possibly born in a non-Western country). Everyone accepted that this child would live as the opposite sex, probably permanently.

Second decade: countless ‘trans’ children, all autistic, every single one. Trans was an outward manifestation of inner distress and ‘not belonging’, especially present in (but not limited to) autistic teenage girls. Some have gone on to have gender-affirming ‘surgery’.

Entering my third decade of teaching, I’m seeing the dying embers. One or two sixth formers still insisting on opposite sex names (both autistic) but almost no presentation in Y7-11. It feels like a (wrong) solution to a problem we still haven’t worked out how to solve (how to help autistic children with interoceptive distress and bodily change).