Has anyone left their spouse over GC views / pro-Islam stance

May i ask what you think of nuns who wear the headscarf? You haven't mentioned them have you? Why is it that it's the muslim women covering their head that you feel uncomfortable with? So if a nun wears the headscarf its a freedom of choice and no man's forced her but god forbid a woman who follows her faith,shes being suppressed by a Muslim man! I've seen all your posts regarding this and I have come to the conclusion you don't like Muslims. Be it men or women as you feel uncomfortable seeing a woman in a hijaab and bad Muslim men who are forcing women. Stay with your partner or divorce him but please don't use us as a excuse. Wish you all the best.

You're going into what ifs now. Like i said wasn't forced when I was a little girl and wasn't forced when I got married and won't be forced. To me islam teaches not to hurt anyone and not to enforce your beliefs on anyone. As for being mandatory in other countries. I dont know where you've got that from. Pakistan is a Muslim country and there even women don't wear it. So like i said you're presuming the worse of muslim men just because of a woman who's decided she wants to wear the hijab. It doesn't make sense to me.

Or even these catholic women in Italy.

? There are female Imams. Islam, like Christianity with female priests and Judaism with female rabbis has gradually opened their priesthood to women.

Hijabs do not dehumanise 🤨 any more than a headscarf tied the Jewish way.

many will see both as evidence of a male misogynistic and controlling religious-based practice.

Ah, so we see that antisemitism and Islamophobia is a problem in the UK. It checks when we look at the statistics on religiously motivated hate crimes that disproportionately affect women.

Funny thing is that it is these so called enlightened, liberal men that are making women too afraid to wear a headscarf. What if they all decided women should stop covering their stomachs and we all should walk around in crop tops and that a long top was evidence of misogyny and male control?

I think it’s men that want women more naked, more exposed that are the misogynistic voyeurs.

You are a bit confused,
The Old Testament is part of the Talmud- Jewish holy book.
The New Testament was later and is for Christianity. The New Testament doesn’t entirely “over ride” the old
The Quaran came after Christianity. Islam is the most recent and most modern version of the book.

It doesn’t matter what we wear, we always end up judged on what we were wearing when men react with violence. I think you would benefit from looking at the What Were You Wearing Exhibit.
https://sbaproject.org/what-were-you-wearing/

It will open your eyes to the fact that we are subjugated no matter what we are wearing or not wearing.

That’s more than the Talmudic tradition of my religion where women were barred from being witnesses in criminal or civil cases with only a few exceptions.
https://www.sefaria.org/Rereading_the_Rabbis%3B_A_Woman's_Voice%2C_9_Testimony.4?lang=bi

So sorry @Judgejudysno1fan tgat was not a direct answer to you. I quoted you by mistake. I meant the poster you were answering.

I wonder if young women cutting off their breasts and growing a beard is another form of burka - to help them avoid the male gaze and lust with images of violent porn acts mingling in their male thought bubbles.

Hiding your beauty is misogynistic. Showing your beauty is misogynistic. Tops with your boobs half showing are for women not men, because it’s‘attractive’. Attractive to who? We can pretend it’s just for each other and it sort of is, but it’s still wirhin women’s fashion with the knowing gaze of a man. It just all goes round in circles.

ALL religious texts have things that can be seen as misogynistic as they were written a long time ago. People can interpret and follow the bits they like.

It's not about defending Islam, it's about recognizing the right of people to religion, and just as importantly, recognizing that belief and practice of any specific religion is on a scale. From cultural, thro moderate, all the way to ultra extremist.

When it comes to Islam, there does seem to be a section of society that yell ISIS at the mere sight of anything Muslim at all, and it is that tarring all with the same brush is just wrong.

OP, you'll get nowhere on this thread now you've been critical of Islam. It's the ultimate conversation derailer. Posters will be falling over themselves to prove how very not-racist they are, by defending Islam from feminist critique that would be considered perfectly valid if aimed at any other religion. As you already see happening.

For what it's worth, I'm sorry you're going through the divorce. But I doubt the two issues you've mentioned are the sole cause of it. This kind of values mis-match is usually a symptom of deeper issues in the relationship - especially if you can't hear each other out and work through it. It's probably more of a "straw that broke the camel's back" situation than the actual reason you're leaving your husband.

Give yourself time. You're still processing all of this, and you might be surprised the things you uncover as you move forward

This is profoundly sad.

So a 'good' Muslim woman must hide her 'beauty' (which means her hair, general body shape, even her face), in case a strange man looks at her and finds her attractive? Surely that's very much his problem, not yours?

There does seem to be a strong whiff of insecure and controlling men protecting their 'property' from the sight/interest of other men. Don't they trust their wives or their male friends/colleagues? That some women are happy to pretend that this is a sign of his love/devotion - or even that it is really the woman's own idea - is extremely depressing.

Head hair is just hair. We are neither Rapunzel nor Samson. It's not even something that signals puberty/physical maturity, such as beard hair. Little girls and boys typically have a full head of hair from around 2-3 years old. That hair is surely not, in anyone's minds, remotely sexually provocative.

I very strongly believe that some women try much too hard to please a man they love (or think they might love). But, she'll risk losing the very best of herself in the process, and having a smaller, less rewarding life as a consequence.

A good man, whatever his religion or absence of religion, would not want women and girls to have to shroud and hide themselves in public for fear of male harassment. Instead he would expect men to treat all people, including women and girls, with dignity and respect.

I know it's a bit of a side issue but want to comment. Of course Islam harms women. As does any religion that treats women as not-really-people. E.g. they can't be priests. Hijabs are just a big bright in-your-face flag saying women aren't really people. Everything about them means sex. Including something as ordinary as the hair on their heads. And yet so many women and men are so busy respecting "cultures" that respecting women as real human beings gets lost.

No. Just no. Nothing nuanced about it.

(Also of course: women can choose to wear what they want. But that doesn't change its meaning.)

Quote : "So you were expecting to be told about cherrypicking, context and translations? That’s because they’re important. That’s why people keep telling you about them"

That is usually the way it goes yes. When one quotes parts of the Bible to dispute a point made- about the Bible.

In this case It was a poster, @ThatBlackCat, who had said "..... And the difference is the New Testament over-rides the Old Testament. We don't live by the Old Testament. Christianity has changed. Islam, has not."

I was just quoting the NT. Because even if one decides to ignore the OT, the NT is still pretty bad.

The next stage is usually the " you were never a real Christian, often followed by accusations of me being a demon or whatever.

And no, I am not trying to justify being an atheist. It's just one of those things where after having spent years reading and studying the Bible as a believer, that knowledge can be useful if the Bible is being discussed.

What anyone chooses to believe or not believe, what is written in the Bible is what is written.

I was only posting about what someone had said about the Bible, nothing else.

So you were expecting to be told about cherrypicking, context and translations? That’s because they’re important. That’s why people keep telling you about them.

Do you really need to quote the whole chapter or book? Well, you need to not quote one verse because it supports your arguments and ignore the verses which don’t. It’s no use going ‘it’s right there in black and white.’ Selective quotations are a very old trick, most recently discussed in depth on the Sandie Peggie tribunal judgement threads.

Straw man arguments, where you complain that people aren’t following rules you made up are another old trick. The rule that I have to take every verse in the bible literally is one you made up. It’s not a Jewish rule, it’s not a Christian rule.

As to its missing its mark by miles - yeah, if you trawl through the many bibles on your shelf looking for the bits to justify your atheism, it will keep missing the mark for you. If I were you, I’d pop those bibles in storage, get off the atheist websites (or whatever) and stop thinking you have to justify not being a Christian. You don’t.

I think we are the opposite of you.
my husband is very anti-Muslim and thinks trans people should be tolerated as mentally ill people, like the guy in our village that dances nonstop. He can’t stand still or walk normally, he has to dance everywhere.

I personally think that the two children of Judaism and Judaism itself are all patriarchal religions and as such will always have fundamentalists that refuse to progress into the 21st century and use Judaism/Christianity/Islam to oppress women.

Devout women in all three religions have a tradition of covering their hair, in Judaism many wear headscarfs that cover their hair, it’s just tied differently. Devout women in Christianity- ie nuns also cover their hair. It is all copied from my religion. It’s also so minor an issue, when there are still serious threats to our rights from religious extremists - abortion bans, child and forced marriage, lack of divorce rights, access to education and professions.

I think hyperfocusing on the fundamentalists of one of these three religions is kind of hypocritical especially for an American. How can OP seriously be thinking of divorcing her husband over the hijab having voted for Trump&Vance? Vance of the church that thinks women should not have the right to vote, to hold any public office, to a university education or to any professional career?

Shows a serious lack of critical thinking. 🤨

Totally as expected. " Cherrypicked", "Context", "translations".

I am not cherry picking. I am quoting verses from the Bible. Do I really need to quote the whole chapter or book ? It's right there in black and white. I am not writing an instruction manel, just quoting the Bible.

I am atheist, so make no difference to me what is written in the book. It just seems odd to me that many Christians want others to live by their rules, while ignoring them themselves.

I have most of the other Bible versions, inc the Greek.

But if you are saying the Bible is wrong, I totally agree. As a guide to life and morals, it misses the target by miles.

I think you meant ‘cherrypicked’ rather than cut and pasted.

Ephesians 5:21 “Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ” and then 25: Husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her… the entire passage is about reciprocal behaviour.

1 Timothy - it’s a favourite, this one, and again ignores the context. Which is about proper worship behaviour. Using the KJV is an oldie but goodie, because it avoids all those annoying translation difficulties (a man meaning any man or a husband? Does a woman learn in quietness mean don’t ask questions or let women learn quietly?)

Colossians - oh look, we’ve left out the rules for husbands again…

1 Corinthians, also about proper behaviour in a Greek church that’s clearly indulging in some ‘interesting’ behaviour, circa AD 50.

I’d generally say that the NT, as a collection of Graeco-Roman biographies, letters to churches in various types of difficulties and a prophetic vision that always makes me wonder what kind of mushrooms grew on Patmos - is really not the kind of instruction manual that you’d use to set up your laptop. But you’re not even treating it as instruction manual; just as a source for quote mining. Chat GTP would probably have done a better job.

I am atheist now. But like ex smokers, I think ex Bible reading Christians are the worst. Cos many of us know the Bible. :-)

The Bible is an horrific book really. Or at least it is when one reads it without the Christian specs on.

But this is not the thread for that. I was just responding to a post, doing a fact check thing.

I just think it odd when I see Christians say Muslims have no choice but to follow the Quaran to the letter, when the Christians ignore their own book.

Yeah, that’s definitely a hardcore supercessionist view, which is, shall we say, considered a bit outdated by most of the major Christian denominations.

Thanks @Judgejudysno1fan . I really appreciate the explanation 💐

Ok, thank you for sharing these.

If your ex Christian what are you now?
If you dont mind my asking ?