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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Woman banned from Council gyms...guess why? Protest 10th Jan at 1 pm see post on pg.7

503 replies

lcakethereforeIam · 24/12/2025 11:09

Those who guessed 'because she objected to a man in the women's changing room', give yourselves a pat on the back

https://archive.ph/wLUBN

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/12/23/council-gym-trans-row/

Access Restricted

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/12/23/council-gym-trans-row

OP posts:
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10
Iamnotalemming · 23/01/2026 16:26

I watched the menno video about the protest today. Towards the end he interviewed Fiona McAnena who was wearing a cap with 'XX' embroidered on it. She said women had been wearing them to ParkRuns to show they understand biology or something like that.
Does anyone know where or how you can get them? I'd love a way to quietly demonstra te while out running, CLAW that I am.

dynamiccactus · 16/01/2026 18:40

Pickledcontext · 08/01/2026 16:22

Hi ladies,
These posts make me really sad.
I have been working in anti-sexual violence for many years.
I've sought to listen as best I can to this thread and I don't suspect this comment will be read, let alone heard.

I support your right to protest and I'm appalled that women have left a space due to their discomfort. This isn't right and I hope you receive an outcome that helps you feel safe and relaxed.

When I was a member at this gym, the only incident I had was with a man in the gym main space. It was bizarre and unpleasant and the attending staff member ignored the behaviour. I didn't feel safe and nor did I feel able to report.

Due to the nature of my work, I have spent more time than most talking to experts in sexual violence and countless survivors, from every day sexism to severe, life altering trauma in childhood.

As my fellow survivors will know, whilst it is not impossible for a woman to commit abuse, the vast, vast majority is committed by men. Again - I am not saying its impossible for a trans woman to commit abuse - but trans women are far more likely to be victims of sexual abuse than perpetrators.

Whilst I understand the fear that abusive men could abuse the system and pretend to identify as a woman, trans women have largely been using 'female' changing rooms since 2010, with very few reported incidences.

I'm not suggesting we need to agree on everything. Just please consider what will happen next.

  • If your child doesn't look feminine, how will they 'prove' their sex?
  • Do you have any butch friends? How will this impact them?
  • What about butch looking women you don't know?

I also don't think it's particularly useful, but outside of my work, I was surprised to learn that someone I had known for over a year was intersex. They didn't find out until they were a teen. It was a huge source of pain for them and continued to cause distress. I'm sharing this because I thought intersex people were much rarer than they are. A useful comparison is for every 3 redheads you've met, you've likely met 1 intersex person. It's not always as simple as testing hormones and I don't think any of us would advocate for genital inspections.

I sincerely apologise if I'm come off as judgemental, preachy or dismissive.
I respect your decisions and even though I don't agree with some of the things that have been said here, we don't have to force one another to totally agree on anything. However, when I read the posts and felt like I should probably stay silent, I felt that isn't what you're fighting for.

At the end of the day, whatever you believe, we all believe in the importance of safety, fairness, dignity and respect.

As you campaign, rightly, with a view to protect, please keep in mind that there are some people who will not be safe in the men's changing room. Saying that that's 'not my problem' isn't just unkind - we've had trans women in our spaces for over 15 years. Casting them aside without any consideration on the impact this may have says a lot about who we are.

  • If your child doesn't look feminine, how will they 'prove' their sex?
  • Do you have any butch friends? How will this impact them?
  • What about butch looking women you don't know?

As soon as a woman opens her mouth it's obvious she's female. Anyway, butch women look like butch women, not like men.

SinnerBoy · 14/01/2026 09:10

SarkyMummy · 12/01/2026 16:29

I complained to Southwark and got this response. Looks like they are digging in:

They can deny wrongdoing until the cows come home, they're still clearly in breach of the law. The SC Judgment is clear; single sex spaces are exactly that and as tranw are men, they have no legitimate access to womens' single sex spaces.

They need to sack whoever gave them such poor legal advice, that its fine to ignore the law and let men, who try to pass themselves off as women, access to female SSS.

NeverOneBiscuit · 14/01/2026 00:08

I’ve just sent a complaint to Southwark Council, quoting their standard ‘case closed’ letter as posted on this thread.

I concentrated on the legal side of things. Also their beauty parade whereby staff let the men who most ‘look like a woman’ enter the female single sex space.

I preempted some of their arguments, such as how do we know who are the men or the women. Apart from pointing out our split second assessment evolutionary skill, the 600 physiological differences between the 2 sexes & the fact it was never a problem before, I pointed out the obvious one in this case. The beauty parade. If they’re assessing whether the men ‘pass’ then they definitely know one thing - they’re a bloke.

I also included some of the great points made on this thread, such as how successful Sex Matters are and what a waste of taxpayers money it would be to fight the SC ruling.

I’ve asked them to explain why in the light of the SC ruling they are knowingly allowing males into female only spaces. I also pointed out the staggering irony that Miranda is banned and yet the men who pass their test are currently in their female changing rooms.

I also clarified the position on waiting for further guidance as set out by the SC, as I suspect this might be their excuse.

I’m intrigued to see their response.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/01/2026 22:51

Theeyeballsinthesky · 13/01/2026 12:20

I've been involved with challenging councils in other areas of law. It's really not that unusual for local authorities to ignore bits of the law that they consider expensive or difficult to implement.

they work on the basis that most people give up at some point and the chances of it getting all the way to court are slim

i would say with these cases - big mistake!huge! As we've seen women are more than willing to go to court

As far as I remember when councils have been seriously challenged they’ve mostly settled or backed down before it got to court. Westminster Council for the social work case being one exception.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/01/2026 22:50

Coatsoff42 · 13/01/2026 18:26

Perhaps there needs to be some big ‘People of Southwark, your council wants to spend your council tax keeping men in women’s changing rooms’ poster campaign.
i would not be impressed with their priorities.

Or leaflet all the houses in the area around the gym.

Coatsoff42 · 13/01/2026 18:26

SarkyMummy · 13/01/2026 15:17

Agreed and of course should they go to court it’s also a shocking use of the council’s very limited money and people resource. If I were a Southwark resident I’d be very unhappy and would be looking to vote the current administration out.

Perhaps there needs to be some big ‘People of Southwark, your council wants to spend your council tax keeping men in women’s changing rooms’ poster campaign.
i would not be impressed with their priorities.

SarkyMummy · 13/01/2026 15:17

Agreed and of course should they go to court it’s also a shocking use of the council’s very limited money and people resource. If I were a Southwark resident I’d be very unhappy and would be looking to vote the current administration out.

TranscendentTiger · 13/01/2026 13:32

Theeyeballsinthesky · 13/01/2026 12:20

I've been involved with challenging councils in other areas of law. It's really not that unusual for local authorities to ignore bits of the law that they consider expensive or difficult to implement.

they work on the basis that most people give up at some point and the chances of it getting all the way to court are slim

i would say with these cases - big mistake!huge! As we've seen women are more than willing to go to court

Exactly. You only need to look at the way they approach SEND law to know that councils often don't really care about following the law if it's expensive or they think people won't follow through.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 13/01/2026 12:20

Citrusbergamia · 13/01/2026 12:03

'They' (Southwark Council) are made up of real people. Who are these individuals who have ALL agreed that the matter is closed and that they've not acted against the law?!

I'm staggered that there are a group of people prepared to say they've not acted against the law while the SC ruling is right there, in front of them?! 😳

Why must Sex Matters now take this on as yet another court case when it's all in black and white already; it's so wasteful of time, money and women's health. Fucking outrages me; I'm so sick of it.

I've been involved with challenging councils in other areas of law. It's really not that unusual for local authorities to ignore bits of the law that they consider expensive or difficult to implement.

they work on the basis that most people give up at some point and the chances of it getting all the way to court are slim

i would say with these cases - big mistake!huge! As we've seen women are more than willing to go to court

Citrusbergamia · 13/01/2026 12:03

lcakethereforeIam · 13/01/2026 09:42

Sadly I disagree. I think they are taking the issue seriously. They don't, however, take women seriously.

'They' (Southwark Council) are made up of real people. Who are these individuals who have ALL agreed that the matter is closed and that they've not acted against the law?!

I'm staggered that there are a group of people prepared to say they've not acted against the law while the SC ruling is right there, in front of them?! 😳

Why must Sex Matters now take this on as yet another court case when it's all in black and white already; it's so wasteful of time, money and women's health. Fucking outrages me; I'm so sick of it.

teawamutu · 13/01/2026 10:48

Theeyeballsinthesky · 13/01/2026 09:59

I expect it'll be along the lines of "something something until EHRC issues guidance"

Given the Supreme Court was quite clear that their ruling was on what the law always had been, it'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 13/01/2026 09:59

SarkyMummy · 13/01/2026 09:53

What I don’t get is why they think they can reasonably claim to have acted legally. I can only assume that they are trying to bluff through this in the hope that it will go away.

I expect it'll be along the lines of "something something until EHRC issues guidance"

SarkyMummy · 13/01/2026 09:53

What I don’t get is why they think they can reasonably claim to have acted legally. I can only assume that they are trying to bluff through this in the hope that it will go away.

lcakethereforeIam · 13/01/2026 09:42

Sadly I disagree. I think they are taking the issue seriously. They don't, however, take women seriously.

OP posts:
FarriersGirl · 13/01/2026 07:40

I sent a complaint to Southwark Council and have had the same response word for word. Disgraceful and illustrates they are not taking the issue seriously.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/01/2026 01:55

Of course Southwark Council “does not consider that it has acted unlawfully”, when they’re marking their own homework.

PassTheHanky · 12/01/2026 18:26

I got exactly the same response from Southwark Council so clearly a standard letter. I wonder how many they had to send out.

SirChenjins · 12/01/2026 17:15

I'm sure they'd love the matter to be closed - but it's not theirs to close.

If the OP wants to take this further, I'll happily donate too.

borntobequiet · 12/01/2026 16:34

SarkyMummy · 12/01/2026 16:29

I complained to Southwark and got this response. Looks like they are digging in:

‘Southwark Council has already undertaken a full investigation into the incident referenced, in line with its established procedures. The Council does not accept the assertions made in your letter and does not consider that it has acted unlawfully.
^^
The Council does not comment on individual cases, particularly where matters have been misrepresented publicly. Any actions taken were based on evidence, were proportionate, and were consistent with Council policies and legal duties.
^^
The Council keeps all relevant policies under regular review to ensure they remain lawful and appropriate.
^^
We consider this matter closed.’

Ooh, bring it on, Sex Matters! I’ll donate.

SarkyMummy · 12/01/2026 16:29

I complained to Southwark and got this response. Looks like they are digging in:

‘Southwark Council has already undertaken a full investigation into the incident referenced, in line with its established procedures. The Council does not accept the assertions made in your letter and does not consider that it has acted unlawfully.
^^
The Council does not comment on individual cases, particularly where matters have been misrepresented publicly. Any actions taken were based on evidence, were proportionate, and were consistent with Council policies and legal duties.
^^
The Council keeps all relevant policies under regular review to ensure they remain lawful and appropriate.
^^
We consider this matter closed.’

EmpressaurusKitty · 12/01/2026 07:19

I was there too. The police, when asked if they could get the TRAs to turn their noise down, repeatedly made excuses.

If it sounded loud to us several feet away, it must have been horrendous for the people inside the centre.

fromorbit · 11/01/2026 15:03

Southwark Council in trouble.

Sex Matters

We were in Southwark today protesting against the council’s unlawful policy and the suspension of Miranda Newsom from her gym for complaining about a man in a women’s changing room.

Miranda Newsom is an ordinary woman. Like most women, she wants to be able to change with dignity and privacy. She does not expect to have to share this space with a man. This is not a difficult thing to ask for.

The trade union Unison is holding a counter-protest outside the leisure centre. Women who have turned up to support Miranda — and to defend their own sex-based rights — are facing further intimidation.

If Southwark wants to be the test case to try to overturn the Supreme Court judgment, we will see them in court.

Helleofabore · 11/01/2026 11:24

Thanks again Miranda, and all the women who protested yesterday. I am sure any person attending the open day will have noticed the stark difference between the TRAs noisy and intimidating at the entrance of the gym and the women speaking.

It pretty much encapsulates the issue nicely.

KnottyAuty · 10/01/2026 21:21

Greyskybluesky · 08/01/2026 18:22

Just because there was no set policy that a provisions should be female only because organisations didn't expect any male person to enter that provision, did not mean that female people consented to that behaviour. Claiming this privilege based on historic behaviour where consent was ignored is appalling.

This cannot be said often enough. It absolutely nails it. I am so sick of statements like "trans women have been using women's spaces for 15 years with no complaints ".

Just because there were apparently no complaints does not mean we EVER consented to this!

”She didn’t say no”

Where have we heard that before?