Teen threw out Harry Potter books. Help me form points for discussion please

Whose books? The ones in our house belonged originally to me so I'd be expecting to be bought a new set. If they were hers you might want to get your own set for the house, and just have words with her about the waste.

Apart from that I told DD I thought people were wrong about JKR, sent DD JKR's essay and asked her to have a read and a think. Iirc I suggested she also try reading some accounts by trans kids. I was confident that anything she looked up would start with a stereotype pile-on, which I know DD will recognise because she's a big stereotype objector.

I think I gave her a couple of my main points but she wasn't up for a discussion at the time. I started with stereotypes and sexism which I know are things DD and I are very much in agreement on. That being a girl just means you have a female body, it shouldn't limit you in any other way. That sometimes girls have different needs to boys due to these biological differences, and that where biology isn't a factor maybe treating them differently is just sexism.

Just got to wait it out. My son is 20 and used to be incredibly 'right on' and it was infuriating but we just let him blether on. He's over it all now and also thinks a lot of it is ridiculous.

This is what I was attempting to say but @GooseyGandalf explains it far more articulately

First I’d think very carefully about whether your relationship either your dc is more or less important to you than your gc beliefs.

The teenage years are very difficult. They’re pulling away. They’re looking at us as a model for what they don’t want to be, because the drive to differentiate is biological, innate and overpowering. It hurts as a parent but everything is unfolding just as it should.

If your gc beliefs are fundamental to you, tread lightly. Don’t show your hand too directly, because if you do, it could be the defining point of differentiation.

If your relationship with your dc is important, listen to them with interest and curiosity about who they are right now, how they arrived at a point where throwing out books felt necessary. Don’t challenge or correct, just listen. They’re on a journey but you don’t know the destination. They’re path is completely different to yours so let them tell
you about the scenery.

Listen to their feelings and empathise because that’s the crux of relationship.

Don’t poke holes in their logic - they’ll notice the holes as they try to explain, so don’t distract them from their internal critic or else they’ll only hear the critic speaking with your voice, instead of their own.

It is absolutely crucial that they hear their own doubts, and not just on this issue. This is a vital life skill.

It’s very likely that their position is driven my empathy, a sense of injustice - those are great things so don’t belittle them.

When the logic fails (as it will) steer them back to their feelings and support them. If they only learn that you can disagree and still love each other, they’ll have learned something profound.

To be fair I threw out all my childhood Dr Dolittle books after trying to read them to the kids and having to skip the N word used liberally as a descriptor.

Has she literally just chucked the books in the bin? And they were in decent condition
If so i’d start from that angle tbh that we want to try and minimise waste, that these books could have gone to charity or a freecycle group. Then ask her to explain her actions and continue a rational discussion.

I was about to mention this. Takes all the emotion out of it.

Which is more important to you, a close relationship with your child or winning the argument?

Teens tend to have strong and sometimes flawed opinions. Wise parents let them work their way through those phases, only intervening if they are at real risk of harm or of harming others.

The best gift we can give our children is the freedom to have different opinions from us.

I am as gender critical as they come but I'm not falling out with loved ones over it.

Isn’t that like saying ‘ignore your child’s extremism’ ? Pretty sure we’ve a few examples this year where that didn’t work out so well.

Have you seen this young teacher’s video? It’s a perfect class on the Socratic method, and getting someone to actually examine their own preconceptions (specifically about JKR):

m.youtube.com/watch?v=zIPPpsJY39c

I'm afraid I also don't think there is anything you can say right now. I'm sure the points you've already made are strong but I doubt your daughter has been convinced by facts and logic - far more likely that she's been swayed by emotion and the strong desire/need to be accepted by her friends. Plus you are her mother and therefore, in a teenager's head, you are wrong.

After 25yrs working with teenagers I’d ask why and I’d really listen to their response. As adults we like to impart our wisdom, kids don’t care. They want to feel heard. Don’t approach this as a point you need to win. General questions about critical thinking, differences of opinion, how to debate or how to handle disagreement are far more useful.

Old people? Their parents you mean. What an odd attitude.

My DD and I several years ago had to agree never to raise the issue of JKR, trans women etc etc again with each other. She was in her early 20s and was spouting frankly shit. We were both in tears with our last conversation about it.

Since then she has matured and had several experiences which has made her question and change her beliefs. She gets it now. We've never had to talk about why her beliefs have changed and I have never said I told you so 😬.

So I would bide my time frankly.

I'd rip her a new one for throwing away books - any books.

This. Otherwise leave her alone and let her come to her senses in her own time. Teens do not appreciate being told what to think by old people.

There is a 1 million pound prize for anyone who can find anything that JKR has said or written that is transphobic. Looking for something might get her reading.

Then Karen White.

I agree with throwing out books, just give them to someone else. And learning to separate art from the artists. Trust me, there isn’t that much art left to enjoy once you know about the artists lives, especially non modern ones.

As for the whole trans ideology, males in womens sports was the hill I was prepared to die on and that one worked with my eldest brainwashed child. That and the transgirl at school who was a major creep that used trans ideology to guilt trip lesbian girls into dating him.

I wouldn’t bother. Not worth risking the relationship. I actually think some young people have leapt on this point of difference between generations as a way of generating conflict because on most other topics Gen X and their teens agree on.

Also how old is she? Anecdotally this is definitely a stage most seem to move on from. Both mine and their friends now older teens gently eye rolled at the “they/thems” as they call them, support single sex spaces and have zero issues with jkr. This seems to be the majority view.

Has she asked for a discussion?

I'd ask her not to throw out books but to pass them on. If I wanted my own copies, I'd have them. But as PP said, teenagers often clear out childhood books anyway, and return to them as adults.

I'd be ready to discuss if she raises it, but otherwise hesitant to impose that discussion on a teenager. It's likely to be counter-productive. But you can make it clear if it ever comes up that you disagree and would be happy to explain your perspective at some point if she's interested.

Just ask them to clarify what's so transphobic about JKR's position. And if they have no evidence, why are they accepting this judgement of her blindly?

Agree, it’s not ok to destroy books. If he doesn’t want them any more they can be donated.

then I’d ask him to read the essay and say what he disagrees with

Would it help to make it into a more general conversation about critical thinking?

You don't say whether you have a younger or older teen, but with our DC we tried to instil the view that they could have whatever opinions they wanted (as long as not offensive) but we expected them to have considered both sides of the argument using fact based sources, have thought about them properly and to be able to explain why they had come to the opinion they had. "I saw something on TikTok" really didn't wash.

So the response to "I think JKR is transphobic" is "why do you think that?". Let them explain. If they don't have an explanation, challenge them to go away and find one - and to also look at opposing views. They might not change their mind overnight (or actually bother to find anything), but hopefully it will spark something.

Point 1 ‘of discussion’:

‘You can go and fish those books out of the bin now.’

Throwing out books, ffs.