Why do you care so much about gender issues?

I didn’t know I was a TERF or cared about ‘gender issues’ but I have always been of the view that addressing any mental health issue (where genuinely experienced, and not a fetish) with medicalisation or surgery was abusive and harmful.

For me it’s a matter of truth and facts.

I had a discussion with someone over 15 years ago maybe longer talking about - body integrity disorder. If you feel your leg doesn’t belong to you Doctors will not amputate. They say you have a mental health issue and leave your leg attached. And when you force your own leg amputation you end up jailed www.cps.gov.uk/south-west/news/surgeon-jailed-fraud-after-lying-about-self-inflicted-injuries-led-his-leg

But in gender dysphoria you feel your breasts don’t belong to you Doctors ‘amputate’ freely and give you a cocktail of drugs to boot. And affirm your mental disorder. I shared this idea a lot and was judged and jeered for it in many settings.

Hearing Naomi Cunningham say pretty much the same thing (much more elegantly) a few weeks ago was full circle.

It is illogical, harmful, misogynistic, fundamentalist bullshit.

I am very grateful to Mumsnet for widening my experience on other sides of this and also having a space to share these experiences.

I was never ‘be kind’.

And where exactly do trans men factor into all this 'barging' in the interests of consistency to this 'thesis'?

Utter tosh.

Rampant individualism, and an unrelenting quest for self-determination, regardless of the detriment to others, is usually a feature of right-wing politics.

Trans is the ultimate right-wing ideology, as it encourages the individual to pursue their own selfish desires no matter how this impacts on others. When a biological male declares himself to be a woman and barges his way into female spaces and prizes, he takes away safety, privacy, dignity, opportunity and self-determination from women. Yet do they care? It doesn’t appear that many of them give a monkey’s, does it? They know they make women vulnerable when they appropriate our stuff, yet still they push to do so. Any such person is unutterably self-centred and lacking in decency and morals.

1. I'm a lifelong lefty. Finding myself on 'the other side' to left-wing political parties, friends, and institutions I have trusted all my life (The Guardian, BBC, NHS, universities) has completely thrown me. Am I wrong? If I'm not wrong, how have they gone so spectacularly wrong?

Lefties traditionally support self determination which underpinned the civil rights movements & feminism so it wouldn’t be consistent for them not to support trans people. Feminism was also legitimised by what men & women had in common not their differences so interchangeability was built into it that's why patriarchal anti feminists blame feminism for transgenderism because they believe the premise of interchangeability promoted by feminism caused it.

OP, your reasoning is exactly my reasoning, apart from the fact I've never had breast cancer/mastectomy.

I'd also like to add the invasion of women-only toilets, changing rooms, sports, prisons - anything that is women-only, they want to force their way in. This is of huge detriment to women and is only of benefit to men.

I have to credit JK Rowling for opening my eyes as to what was happening when I read her 3000 words and then finding FWR threads sealed it. It matters to me because I have seen so many young vulnerable, largely autistic, young people fall down this damaging rabbit hole with disastrous consequences and because my workplace is entirely captured and everywhere I look now I see intimidating entitled men who think being a women is no more than long hair, a dress and wearing makeup. Including men who are 6’4" 100+kg. Incredible that everyone goes along with it.

Look at the relationships board to see how many adult women fail to realise they're in abusive / coercively controlling relationships. And how long it takes some of them to finally see the reality of their lives.

Expecting the young to accurately identify intimidation / bullying /coercive control when it's dressed up in a rainbow swirl of the trans glitter family is unrealistic. That's why the shift with the BBC and other media finally accurately reporting this is critical.

People who read the Times, Telegraph, Mail etc have been exposed to the grim reality of the assault on safeguarding children and women's rights for some time now so readers are generally infuriated that this is taking so long to unravel.

The lanyard classes relying on the BBC / Grauniad have been fed a diet of biased transactivist ideology for a decade with nothing to challenge their complacency or engage their critical thinking.

But as the facts start to be reported more accurately and the power of the trans extremists in institutions lessens, there will be a slow shift in finally understanding what's really happening.

All of that, very much so. No Debate allowed the time for GI to get really embedded into TRSOH.

I think the main reason it took hold and still has a hold is the belief that this is ‘just like homosexuality’ and the collective guilt still felt by society for how homosexual people have been treated and dealt with in law until far too recently. People look at the trajectory of social change in that area and assume that the same should and will happen when it comes to trans sexuality and transvestitism. But of course, it can’t and won’t because they are opposite things and it will take a lot longer for the majority to properly catch on to that. Because it is a little tricky, and no one wants to repeat what happened with homosexuality. Especially no one on the liberal left. For those who have gone along with this, it’s extremely difficult and often dangerous to admit they have been wrong, even as they start to realise. People who see themselves as intelligent and good at critical thinking are in agony when they realise they have been conned by TRA. Eventually it becomes undeniable but many will never be able to admit this to themselves, let alone their tribe. Their ego is at stake.

I think that every 'belief' (by which i mean sonething we choose to accept as true, rather than those things proven to be true) serves a function to the believer. So I think the key to why do people believe, is to identify what they feel they stand to gain from the belief.
Belief in GI rewards believers with social acceptance, the purpose of a percieved 'just cause' to support, positive self image as kind to an oppressed group, the feeling of being part of an exciting future where we throw off the chains of our sex, which I think is especially attractive to women for obvious reasons.
I'm not entirely convinced that many young people are true believers. More like agnostics who enjoy the church community and the singing, and would love to believe there was a heaven, so say their prayers to be on the safe side.

I care because the current gender ideology is cementing gender stereotypes, instead of removing them. The concept that men can ‘live as a woman’ (by wearing ‘wimmins clothes’ etc) undoes decades of feminist/equality campaigning to stop women being forced into looking/dressing/thinking/doing things that keep us limited by patriarchal social constraints. I’m from the generation that was not allowed to wear trousers to school, that was made to study ‘Home Ec’ and sewing whilst the boys did Technical Drawing and metal work, and so on. The concepts the TiMs declare to be ‘facts’ are regressive and repressive.

I also don’t want to be gawked at in gym/swimming pool changing rooms by a bloke who’s declared himself to be a laydee, and don’t want to see women who’ve trained for decades being usurped in sports by mediocre male contestants.

Honestly I don’t give a fuck who wears what, if men feel ‘comfortable’ in a skirt and heels then they are free to wear that (although I dispute that they are comfortable dressed like that because heels are horrible to wear for any length of time, so I suspect it’s more of a kink than anything) but if they want to grow their hair and wear make up then I’m not going to try to stop them, just as I don’t expect anyone to try to tell me I must wear make up and heels just because I am a woman.

Do I believe that body dysmorphia is real? Yes, absolutely, there are definitely people who are so uncomfortable with themselves that they feel like surgical alteration is the only thing that will make them feel right in their skin, look at Katie Price, or Loki Ferrari, Pete Burns or Jocelyn Wildenstein. Trying to change sex is the most extreme way to become a completely different person, it’s literally the opposite of who you are, if you see what I mean.

But there’s no such thing as a woman trapped in a man’s body, or vice versa, and I won’t pretend I can see the Emperors clothes.

Male privilege.
I grew up in Latin America, I was raised to be less than, educated to be pretty and for my cleverness to be a credit to my family and husband.
I saw boys raised to be someone to be the leaders, the authorities.
My voice was to be a party piece.
Misogyny shaped my life, myself.
Live and experience made me a feminist.
I find extremely offensive that a man raised in male privilege and not having been made less than by Misogyny dares to claim to know what does it feel to be a woman.
Genetics was my favourite subject at school, you can not change your chromosomes. I was completely gobsmacked when 10 yeas ago my daughter, a Philosophy student ,came home, with the absurdity that chromosomes didn't matter. I just thought she was being obtuse, I didn't understand yet what was going on.
What finally peacked me was seeing lesbiangs being forced to accept having sex with men.

I reckon someone (yes to them being international) promised Sturgeon big rewards to push the bullshit through.

My theory about Nicola Sturgeon (and other politicians) is/was that they have been playing this transgenderism to their international peers. In particular the Biden administration to get approval. Sturgeon had to show how progressive she was to get external support if they managed to detach from the UK. I assume they thought no one would notice domestically or they could be kept quiet…. Then came Isla Bryson which blew up their rose tinted view, then shortly after FWS and Donald Trump…. It’s an ideology that cant last because it is nonsense but it’s going to take years to get rid (as it’s been creeping in for years).

I was oblivious until Peggie in February and was then enraged by the cheek of these men. Im just so over how the patriarchy just keep coming up with new reasons to squash women. Bloody irritating!! ESP as I can rarely discuss in real life

Because its probably the most ludicrous set of ideas I've come across in my life. I am staggered that it's taken hold, fascinated as to how, and can't bring myself to look away.

I feel like the university sector have a huge amount to answer for here. They gave this nonsense credibility in the form of gender studies departments. They intimidated their actual scientists into silence.
They unleashed a whole host of poorly educated, but highly confident young people into the NGO sector and activist roles and backed them to follow their misplaced passions and shut down dissenters as 'bigots'.

Amen to this. And also into the media, showbiz...

The first trans woman I met was a very long time ago and was a convicted paedophile in hospital. I’ve never been able to see them as vulnerable since then. Just as ordinary men.

Due to my own life experiences and that of my female friends and family I am extremely protective of all women and on high alert for any incursion into their safety and wellbeing - hence I am a massive GC. Men will get access to our sports and safe spaces over my dead body.

I reckon it was #NODEBATE that did it.

As soon as the bullies were enabled to silence dissent, frame questions and challenge as "transphobic", and to use the forces of law and order and social control to impose their anti social / dangerous beliefs on society, we lost it.

Once people knew that they could be disciplined, sacked, pilloried and often physically harmed for challenging this ideology, they kept silent. And by relentlessly targeting the young who are ill equipped to navigate sexual fetishes, are too immature to identify coercive control and abusive relationships and can be as equally frightened & intimidated as adults, they guaranteed a generation of children and young people accepting the incoherent world of sex change.

Safeguarding for me, my dm, dsis, dniece and all the other women and girls out there plus women girls have an equal right to access to fair and safe sports.

pretty basic reasons really

Also in case anyone is swayed by the ‘not all men’ line of argument, I know my friend’s dh isn’t a danger to my ds but I also appreciate that my friend’s dh goes through DBS and safeguarding checks to be able to coach a junior football team and none of us would have it any other way

Some fantastic analysis here

https://x.com/prof_curiosity1/status/2000107197389250820?s=46&t=OKyRO4eweTteo5FEt_J1MQ

Particularly this idea of 'more knowledgable others' and the ponzi scheme that created, which absolutely connects to back to Stonewall and so on.

Ultimately, society mistook activists for experts, they mistook MRA/fetishistic men for the next human rights movement. And all of that comes down to prioritising feelings over knowledge/facts. Parking their brains basically. And they can't row back now, because they can't admit thei were wrong.

I feel like the university sector have a huge amount to answer for here. They gave this nonsense credibility in the form of gender studies departments. They intimidated their actual scientists into silence.

They unleashed a whole host of poorly educated, but highly confident young people into the NGO sector and activist roles and backed them to follow their misplaced passions and shut down dissenters as 'bigots'.

People my age (40s), with little knowledge of the subject, assumed it had credibility because it was backed by the university, medical and then professional communities.

For me, it's because there are so many things which so obviously, fundamentally, shockingly wrong (males in female prisons, rape crisis services refusing to offer single sex services, women being forced under threat of sacking to undress in front of men etc etc etc) being defended by those who simply don't believe that women should be able to say no. That women should put up and shut up. And all this is expressed openly and gleefully and with the backing of institutions such as the Police. As I've said before, it's a misogynist's wet dream.

And as well as no debate, the grip this has taken over institutions I used to have faith in, pride even, has been shocking. I've watched in horror as my elected representatives called rape survivors bigots for daring to express that they should be allowed to merely request a female medical examiner. Have seen my First Minister call women who pointed out the obvious issues with self ID bigots and that their views were 'not valid'.

It's become vitally important to fight against our credulous, ridiculous captured institutions to restore sense and reality.