FFS: Woodcraft Folk Rainbow Camp

Butterflies don't run! 😎

We had men sexually assault women in prisons. In the US, there have been pregnancies.

We had men sexually assault women and children in loos. Nobody seems to care.

They didn't listen when we warned these things would happen, they just shrug when we point out they have happened.

Though I do think activists are purposefully targeting children.

My son's just got back from Scout camp, ages 10-18 stayed overnight, they've had a great and as far as I know safe, single-sex facilities time!

"How will sleeping arrangements be decided?
We will discuss with participants what they are most comfortable with and allocate sleeping spaces accordingly."

So what happens if/when a teenager decides they’d be most comfortable sleeping with much younger children? Or teens of the opposite sex? Are they all just supposed to shut up and accommodate them because one person has said that’s where they feel most comfortable? Even if it makes everyone else distinctly uncomfortable? Will any dissenters be told off for not being a sufficiently supportive ally?

It sounds like an absolute recipe for disaster. Children are not guinea pigs for social experiments.

Hmmm

Why did scouting change it's age groups and discourages 14-17 year olds mixing with 10 year olds unless in a young leadership capacity - and certainly not camping together?

Can anyone guess?

Answers on a postcard

If only Scouting had been kind, it wouldn't have had problems 🤔

Volunteer-led Sessions
Sessions at the local level are run by dedicated volunteers, often parents/carers of the children who attend, though it is not compulsory to be a parent to volunteer. These volunteers share the leadership responsibilities and coordinate the weekly programmes and logistics.

Really good points about the tight age ranges in normal groups. And yes, why exactly is this camp needed when Woodcraft Folk in general is extremely inclusive?

I enjoyed being a Woodie (loved being a Brownie but Guides was run by a mad ultra religious Christian Scientist) but my group was quite a bit younger than me so it wasn't great socially. The songbook was a bit cringe (we sung old African-American spirituals and gems like Can You Hear The H-bomb's Thunder? but it WAS the 80's!) but their hearts were in the right place. A friend who went to a more dynamic group did peace crusades to Germany and loved it all.

When I heard that LR-M had taken over as CEO I thought, well that's that fucked, then ... I'm sure they were captured long long before that, but I'm really concerned that he's now in charge.

I think it could depend how it was managed. I've seen camps with a pretty wide age range, but actually the groups didn't really interact much, and wouldn't have been using sower facilities at the same time.

And like a pp I've seen camps where everyone (within an age category) slept in an open room, with several leaders.

The reasons I've seen it done were more practical though, when it was a lot of kids sleeping in a hall because that is what was available. Or only one shower area for the group.

I find the idea of a camp for pre-pubertal LGBT+ kids quite problematic though before any of the rest of it.

The age group bit is bizarre. One of the things I liked most about Woodies was the tightness of the age groups. Pioneers which I led is only 10-12 year olds, Venturers 13-15 IIRC. I never went near Elfins (6-9) once ds was through them, though I helped out when he was one.

Desire any defence of Woodies that I give, and despite being officially in the LGBTIA classification, I would t have touched this camp with a bargepole, along with being a bit upset that it was felt a separate camp was needed (apart from anything else, running a camp costs an incredible amount of money - actually that’s probably why the age group is so different).

Would you let your 10 year old daughter walk unaccompanied to an individual shower cubicle with a lock on the inside and 17 year old males walking about in the same vicinity? I wouldn't.

Some of this does depend on the exact facilities. Individual shower cubicles that you change within the cubicle do not need to be sex segregated whereas open changing should be

And that gave me these vibes....

Why would a 17 year old want to socialise with a 10 year old?

DBS certification is pretty worthless

If no adult or group leader is present, will the 10 year old be with a load of random adults they don't know?

If they have had SG training they must know it's a non starter surely

We loved WCF years ago. They were brilliant with my autistic daughter who was and is an extreme extrovert! The leaders were lovely if a little bit Christian hipster (not a criticism) but this sounds like a nightmare.

My periods were horrible as a teenager, really difficult to manage. I can't imagine how I'd have coped with the idea of this.

I was going to say I just wouldn't go on the trip, but I was a child so I wouldn't have had a choice - my mum would have made me go!

"led by experienced staff and volunteers"

Who presumably have already agreed not to object to boys watching girls shower and that boys can sleep in with girls whether the girls like it or not.

I wonder where the volunteers will be sleeping?

Ahh I feel compelled to defend WCF here!

(For reference, Billy Bragg is a bit of a tosser and pronoun declarations are not a neutral act).

My experience of Woodcraft Folk has been brilliant! Not at all chaotic, our group leader is an absolute inspiration in running a tight (yet also fun and kind) ship.

Activities are hugely varied: from traditional, to practical, to caring (for ones feelings, each other, the environment). All alongside an endless selection of extremely fun group games. They're also great at arranging affordable trips and activities for the group, many of whom aren't from privileged backgrounds.

When we first got involved it was exactly what I wanted for my kids: fun, co ed, inclusive (the old meaning of that word), no swearing allegiance to the king. My local group still is all that thankfully!

I'm heartbroken that the leaders of an organisation for whom being secular is so fundamental, have fallen for the latest patriarchal religion on the block.

The people I know who are into the Woodcraft Folk are completely TWAW/Billy Bragg is a hero/pronouns in email types. This, shocking as it is, doesn't surprise me at all.

We did a lot of outdoor and practical stuff at our Woodies. Beavers was all colouring in. As always, it depends entirely on the leaders.

Ah. The only people I know who were involved in Woodcraft Folk were enthusiastic adopters of 'no boundaries' as a parenting strategy (yes, really).

They didn't believe in giving their children any rules, just thought that they would work it all out for themselves.

You'll be unsurprised to hear that the children developed what I would genuinely suspect are strong psychopathic traits.

Poor kids, really. Deeply, deeply destabilised.

You’ve read that wrong - parents are allowed, but they don’t have to attend.

As a Woodies leader about ten years ago, we definitely had sex-segregated sleeping accommodation on camp. Most of our leaders were teachers so knew how to do a risk assessment.

Good luck at the planning meeting for that camp. Allocating the dorms alone is going to take about 2 hours. Then people are going to be ‘not comfortable’ with the arrangements throughout the weekend.

As usual with Woodies, they are imagining children are basically small adults who can articulate everything they are feeling with adult language, adult consistency and adult perspective.

We took DS1 to the under-5s Woodcraft folk once . The kids were told to run around the room pretending to be butterflies. He put his best 'wtf' face on and we never went back. Followed by many happy years in Scouts and the ATC.