Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Thread derailment

461 replies

Temporaryusernamefortoday · 11/12/2025 22:51

Wondering if I am the only one that’s noticed more and more thread derailments. I’m not talking about TRA taking a TWAW stance but an individual being deliberately obtuse or missing the point of an individuals posts to create an argument about a tangential element. It just seems rather insidious and designed to prevent proper conversation.

This is not a TAT but a thread about a phenomenon.

OP posts:
Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 16:03

FlirtsWithRhinos · 13/12/2025 15:58

I've posted in depth on this before so I'll just give a quick note and try to find the original post:

It's really interesting to me how much of trans identity expression is expressed by relation to the female not the male.

Trans women gain breasts, trans men remove them. Trans women do not feel accepted unless they are accepted as women in the places only women can be, trans men (in your experience) are more concerened with distancing themselves from other women than being accepted by men.

I think it goes back to Patriachy's framing of women as the Other to be filled and defined rather than as humans just as varying and fully realised as men.

Show quote history

There may be something to that. I think part of it is that you can't gain inherent privilege very easily. So TM will never feel quite aligned with men because they can never gain the privilege that comes with being born male.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 13/12/2025 15:58

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 15:51

As I said, I mostly think about TM but there isnt any reason for me to feel differently about TM than TW.

Show quote history

I've posted in depth on this before so I'll just give a quick note and try to find the original post:

It's really interesting to me how much of trans identity expression is expressed by relation to the female not the male.

Trans women gain breasts, trans men remove them. Trans women do not feel accepted unless they are accepted as women in the places only women can be, trans men (in your experience) are more concerened with distancing themselves from other women than being accepted by men.

I think it goes back to Patriachy's framing of women as the Other to be filled and defined rather than as humans just as varying and fully realised as men.

Shortshriftandlethal · 13/12/2025 15:57

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 12:04

I find that odd for you to say but maybe it is how you define "important". Odd because I don't think you feel the perspective of a woman who has anti-GC/pro-trans views is as important as yours. But again, maybe it is how you define important and how I differ with that.

Show quote history

Surely this is not a matter of perspective, though, it is a matter of fact. Biological sex is real and verifiable and cannot be changed.

You can only have a perspective that some male people are female people if you first of all embrace and accept the belief in 'gender identity theory' without question? There would be no 'trans' if people were automatically the sex they say they are.

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 15:51

FlirtsWithRhinos · 13/12/2025 15:47

Honestly, I even find the phrase "TW are TW" sexist and offsensive. Whatever these men are, they are not any closer to womanhood than any other man. I really wish society would understand this and stop allowing the word "woman" to be used to label mens' personalities as if there was some actual connection there.

Show quote history

As I said, I mostly think about TM but there isnt any reason for me to feel differently about TM than TW.

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 15:49

Seethlaw · 13/12/2025 15:42

I dont reject anyone's word.

Most trans people (not me, obviously) are adamant that not only are they not their biological sex ("TW are not men"), but they are the opposite sex ("trans women are women"). You agree with them regarding the first statement, but you disagree with the second. So yes, you reject their word on that matter.

Show quote history

Yes because my view is consistently that men don't have vaginas. So individual views that don't align with my core belief are heard but not influential over my conclusion.

The thing is, my core beliefs can change with exposure to new information. With enough information that leads me to believe they are indeed men or are still women, I will alter my stance.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 13/12/2025 15:47

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 15:45

I wouldn't say all the trans people I have encountered think that TW are women. At least some have a similar take to me in that TW are TW (not women or men). But yes the TM are vehement about not being women.

Show quote history

Honestly, I even find the phrase "TW are TW" sexist and offsensive. Whatever these men are, they are not any closer to womanhood than any other man. I really wish society would understand this and stop allowing the word "woman" to be used to label mens' personalities as if there was some actual connection there.

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 15:45

FlirtsWithRhinos · 13/12/2025 15:41

The people who vehemently express this to you.

Show quote history

I wouldn't say all the trans people I have encountered think that TW are women. At least some have a similar take to me in that TW are TW (not women or men). But yes the TM are vehement about not being women.

Seethlaw · 13/12/2025 15:42

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 15:38

I dknt reject anyone's word. As I said, you've the first trans person I've come across with your viewpoint. I take it on board that at least one trans person feels that way. I wouldn't exclude you from a women's group you want to be part of regardless, because you are female bodied. Not all trans people want to be welcomed on that basis, though.

Show quote history

I dont reject anyone's word.

Most trans people (not me, obviously) are adamant that not only are they not their biological sex ("TW are not men"), but they are the opposite sex ("trans women are women"). You agree with them regarding the first statement, but you disagree with the second. So yes, you reject their word on that matter.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 13/12/2025 15:41

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 15:14

I tried to make sense of your post. It sounds like youre saying that accepting that a TW is not a man is less harmful than accepting that a TW is a woman.

If I have got that correct, who is saying that a TW is a woman?

Show quote history

The people who vehemently express this to you.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 15:41

But it is also a criticism, something you claimed not to have done.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 15:40

Of course you do.

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 15:40

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 15:38

A criticism, I think. And not the only one.

Show quote history

I'd say that is an observation..it isn't a critique of anyone's views on gender and sex. More about their conduct on the board.

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 15:38

Seethlaw · 13/12/2025 15:36

You clearly don't understand anything about what it is to be a trans person. No wonder you don't mind taking some of their words, and rejecting others, since you don't understand how all those words relate to each other.

Show quote history

I dknt reject anyone's word. As I said, you've the first trans person I've come across with your viewpoint. I take it on board that at least one trans person feels that way. I wouldn't exclude you from a women's group you want to be part of regardless, because you are female bodied. Not all trans people want to be welcomed on that basis, though.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 15:38

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 05:07

You share it as if it is fact completely oblivious to the fact that in many situations, regardless of one's personal views, the GC posters appear to be more trollish than anyone else.

Show quote history

A criticism, I think. And not the only one.

Seethlaw · 13/12/2025 15:36

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 15:30

I think there is less consistency in "I'm a TM but still a woman", personally. I mean if you're a woman who wanted to modify your body, why not be a woman into body modification? What has TM got to do with it?

Show quote history

You clearly don't understand anything about what it is to be a trans person. No wonder you don't mind taking some of their words, and rejecting others, since you don't understand how all those words relate to each other.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 15:36

Yes, you have.

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 15:35

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 15:33

You’ve been quite free and easy criticising other people though, no?

I haven't criticised anyone.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 15:35

Fair enough. I can agree to differ.

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 15:34

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 15:32

I think the distinction between a “TW” and other men is simply that one claims to be a woman, and I’m not convinced by it.

Okay you don't need to be convinced by it. That's just my personal view based on my own feelings and experiences of sex and gender, and what I have read.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 15:33

You’ve been quite free and easy criticising other people though, no?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 15:32

I think the distinction between a “TW” and other men is simply that one claims to be a woman, and I’m not convinced by it.

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 15:32

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 15:31

You’ve been happy talking about it here until now though? I expect other people might be interested too.

I haven't actually, I shared my personal views quite late in the thread. To summarise, I think TW are TW and TM are TM.

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 15:31

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 15:26

You don’t even think they are women.

But youre right, I think TW are TW.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2025 15:31

You’ve been happy talking about it here until now though? I expect other people might be interested too.

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 15:30

Squishedpassenger · 13/12/2025 15:30

I think there is less consistency in "I'm a TM but still a woman", personally. I mean if you're a woman who wanted to modify your body, why not be a woman into body modification? What has TM got to do with it?

Show quote history

But again, this is probably for another thread.