Thread derailment

Yes reflection is key for that. Nothing about a HCP using trans inclusive language to trans service users is biased though. It is a way to ensure equal holistic care for all.

Yes I understand your position as you the individual midwife and I understand your reasoning. I’m pointing out that you as an individual scaled up is when language changes thinking. See the point about asking students their pronouns.

It started as good intentions (it almost always does) but quickly becomes something chilling and ominous when it’s scaled up and then those using reality based language become demonised and compelled to use fantasy words. I have seen this happen before my eyes. The virtuous transform into rigid authoritarians all in the name of ‘being respectful’ - to some, not to all.

But I know many women who think like you do. I disagree.

No it doesn't work like that because it doesnt shift your thinking for everyone you care for, just those who identify that way. So while my language might shift when I am talking about someone who is pregnant but doesn't identify as a woman, it just as quickly shifts back when I am talking about the majority of our service users who are pregnant/postnatal women.

On the other hand,

You - I'm a midwife who uses trans inclusive language in my work

You - those who are not midwives should 'stay within their remit' and not question the medical establishment (My note - eesh, really?)

You - 'not many of our service users speak English as a foreign Language or are SEND so confusing language to make it 'inclusive' isnt't really an issue' (My note - I'm guessing that the number of pregnant women in these categories vastly outnumbers the amount of pregnant women identifying as men)

You - I will completely derail this thread (about, ironically, derailers) to repeatedly make this one, very specific point while simultaneously complaining about other posters who focus one specific point.

But as I said on a pp, you do you. It's often very illustrative for the lurkers.

I also work in a context where I have to shift my language to connect effectively. In fact, I could not do my job without taking on the world view of the people I need to connect to. So I am in fact speaking from experience here.

And something else I know from experience, because in my job it is extremely important to be conscious of bias so I actively seek out learning about how the mind works and how it can be influenced, is how incredibly bad humans are at recognising what influences their "own" thoughts.

The one I started about Class and BeKind.

Next question?

Well that is due to your inexperience as a HCP. We regularly have to shift in all kinds of ways to build the best rapport we can with our service users. Language is just one way we do this.

It really isnt a problem at all.

This is not the ‘gotcha moment’ you think it is.

What it is is the Squishedpassanger ‘brings up the fact she is a
midwife that uses gender inclusive language’ on every recent thread she has been on resulting in the derailment of the thread while squishedpassenger feigns confusion, then reasonableness while being obtuse.

edited because I forgot a step.

then argues against every poster for pages.

Im not engaging with you any more, either you are who you say you are at which point I hope that eventually you understand things further than your maternity ward or you aren’t.

While I absolutely know you’re being goady and deliberately obtuse, I’m going to repeat the following.

’If you perpetuate the myth that TiM (and TiF) are anything but men (or women),

• you support the access of men to female only spaces.
• you reinforce gender stereotypes that there is only ‘one way’ to be a man or woman
• and you support the irreversible mutilation and sterilisation of (often autistic, often gay) vulnerable children.

Males are males, females are females and the inherent differences between the two combined with socialisation means that while there is not one way to be a male or female, a man cannot be a woman and a woman cannot be a man.’

And that is why accurate and correct language is important.

All your posts show your complete inability to accept the wider implications of your actions.

Also, it's the aggressive way people respond on these hot topics.

Let's say I say (please remember these are JUST examples):

Me - I'm a midwife who uses trans inclusive language in my work

Poster1: so you don't give a shit about women?

Poster2: you shouldn't be a midwife

Poster3: so you let men take over all womens spaces?

Poster4: dont listen to Me, no midwife would ever do that

Poster5: Me is a troll. Dont engage

Poster6: asks a genuine question

Poster7: snark behind genuine question

Poster8: what do you think of a man who dressed like a woman in 2002 and broke 17 male sex offenders out of prison? Are you ok with that?

Poster9: Me is okay with that and killing puppies.

Expressing things in ways your audience will understand, yes. Outright lying though, no.

If someone believes her cancer was caused because God is angry with her, would you pretend God has blessed the chemo to persuade her to take it?

I'm sorry, but I don't believe you.

I believe you believe this to be true and are saying it in good faith, but the truth is that we humans are far less in control of our minds than we like to believe, and playacting something too often does change how we think about that thing.

Flipping your language to suit your service user is a skill literally everyone in healthcare has to have.

I completely agree.

It is evident that your grasp of biology is none existent if you can’t understand that men are men and women are women, a worry for the NHS indeed.

No it doesn't work like that because it doesnt shift your thinking for everyone you care for, just those who identify that way. So while my language might shift when I am talking about someone who is pregnant but doesn't identify as a woman, it just as quickly shifts back when I am talking about the majority of our service users who are pregnant/postnatal women.

@FallenSloppyDead2 unfortunately I did get sucked it, but you are absolutely right!

Irritatingly I think the above sums it up perfectly.

Because maybe this financial analyst or bus driver has a greater awareness of the wider impact of language than a rather blinkered midwife.

If you perpetuate the myth that TiM are anything but men,

• you support their access to female only spaces.
• you reinforce gender stereotypes that there is only ‘one way’ to be a man.
• and you support the irreversible mutilation and sterilisation of (often autistic, often gay) vulnerable children.

Males are males, females are females and the inherent differences between the two combined with socialisation means that while there is not one way to be a male or female, a man cannot be a woman and a woman cannot be a man.

No, what is delude is telling a bunch of individuals to ‘self-reflect’ when you have no idea who they are, their experiences and their knowledge.

As for remits, if I ever need to know how a mother births a child and the whole process of childbirth, I will ask a midwife.

If I ever need to consider the safeguarding impact of having men in women’s spaces I will ask

• the woman who was raped on a female only ward in 2021 by a trans woman.
• ‘Sarah’ whose safe space in rape crisis was taken away when the group started to be attended by a TiM in 2022
• The women in women’s prisons sexually assaulted by TiM prisoners
• Anybody who has had to wax Jessica Yaniv
• Anybody who has had to seek Lilly Contino in a women’s bathroom or witness him in child friendly public spaces repeatedly explain his ‘sex change’ surgery.

The list goes on.