Thread derailment

I’m sorry if you don’t approve of posters here showing up the absurdities inherent in believing men are women, but I guess that is why this belief has gained such power, because people don’t interrogate it.

But that's your opinion. As outsiders/new members to the forum, it actually appears as if many of the GC posters are displaying troll-like behaviours. The recipes mentioned above being a very good example.

Yes, I agree that interacting with derailers is often disruptive and that’s why many derailers do it.

The problem is that if you're so entrenched in your views that you cannot see the wood for the trees, then your robust questioning is just a biased interrogation where you essentially derail a thread trying to see if you find the poster acceptable or not. Again, that plays into the idea that this board is a place for GC feminists and so people have to feel you out to decide if you are One Of Them or an Enemy.

Mumsnet have said this board isnt for GC feminists, it's to discuss issues related to gender and sex. Therefore this interrogating of posters by GC members is derailing at least some of the time in their mistaken belief that people with other views are not as welcome here.

And again you are quite disingenuously reading your own projection of what people mean by derailing threads, into what they are saying. Many derailers are trolls. It’s an effective tactic.

It’s the reality of Mumsnet, and wider society that its gender critical in the broad sense. It’s also an established feminist community which was one of the only spaces online to permit the reasonably free discussion of this issue. Not really seeing what your problem is?

Yes, like the people you’re talking about who don’t like robust questioning. People can decide to log off, or not, as they see fit, of course.

No if you're getting "wound up", irrespective of your views, you need to log off.

At least one poster here, if not more, as said they thought this part of the site was aimed at people with GC views as they have nowhere else on the Internet. That explains why people who challenge those views are seen as derailing. From the outside, when you read these discussions, it doesn't seem like they are derailing because this board is advertised by the site in the way it is. It seems like a debate.

However, it makes more sense why the GC people see is as derailing if they think this is akin to a Marxist Socialist board where people with a specific viewpoint are invited to congregate.

That’s nonsense. No one thinks they shouldn’t ever be challenged. That’s what the one note ploppers think, not the regulars.

If someone can’t deal with questioning of their views, perhaps it’s they who should log off, rather than telling other people they shouldn’t challenge absurd statements?

You’re not even close to what I’m talking about.

Yes but maybe one getting wound up because another woman has different views to them isn't appropriate and certainly isn't ban worthy. Maybe if you're getting wound up on the Internet, you need to log off.

I think that you have to understand that your "robust questioning" is just an imperfect individual interrogating another poster to see if they have the same biases. It isn't a way to actually see if someone is a proper feminist or whatever.

I think part of the problem is people seeing their views as the perfect views because some people here share them.

What feminist groups should be about is women from all different background sharing their experiences and learning more about each other. Not trying to compete to see whose views are the Rightest.

The issue is that more than one poster, especially very vocal posters in the group, do think this section is primarily for people who are GC to have a safe space to share their views without challenge. From what I see, the site's moderators have supported that informally despite it never being what the split intended. Well not unless the owner and moderators were being disingenuous in the posts I copied here.

I'm not ignoring anything. I am saying how the site define the board. Maybe you feel the site is ignoring this history.

And yes, sometimes MN does monitor the patterns and occasionally ban people for being repeatedly goady.

There are lots of ways of deliberately winding people up that aren’t obviously in breach of talk guidelines.

If they’re not breaking any guidelines, what is it exactly they are doing then that is a problem? If there are patterns, surely that is helpful to MN.

A lot of the time it’s more insidious than that.

Wouldn’t you just report them then if you think they are breaking MN guidelines?

Same - and this is not a place for half-baked polemic (thank god).

If someone says they are passionate or active in fighting for Women's Rights and TWAW, they will be robustly questioned on their understanding of 'women' and 'rights'. They'll be similarly queried if arguing that hijab/burka is a choice, promiscuity and liberation go together, abortion's bad for women's rights, a religion supports female liberation, no career is a satisfying as being home with your children, and a number of things relating to 'choice' feminism or a non-canonical definition of intersectionality.

FWIW, I hold at least one of these views. I expect to be questioned and to defend myself with a better than one-dimensional argument.

Sometimes it’s clear as a pattern across multiple threads (and sometimes obvious posting styles that are recognisable even with a nc) that a poster is a deliberate community disrupter for whatever personal reasons and that’s often not clear to people new to the thread. I could name several right now, but obviously I’m not going to.

Exactly, it just reflects the fact that MN, like the rest of society, has issues with gender identity ideology, and as it is the feminist board, that’s the lens through which people will be analysing issues relating to women’s conflicting rights. Most people are not either TRAs or feminists. Most women come to MN to speak with other women about common female experiences.

The recipe schtick was an attempt to get rid of persistently contrarian irritants by boring them off the thread. Surprisingly effective: maybe you need to raise your culinary game, Tost.