Thread derailment

This woman has an opposing view on the direction feminism should take. Is her claim to be a feminist legitimate @Squishedpassenger- I’m asking again as I’m genuinely interested.

On a broad scale, people feel that unless you have specific views on each point, you can't be an intersectional feminist. This is a relevant issue in the Feminist subgroups I am passionate about. We are also not a monolith so views on some issues vary greatly with some wanting to exclude others from the wider group for having opposing views on more specific issues.

I can guess for a GC feminist, it must feel like intersectional feminist has become code for "so I think TWAW". When others find out that it doesn't mean that, more an acknowledgement of the diversity of women in every OTHER way, then people want to exclude you.

Because like it or not, the meaning of “intersectional” has been traduced.

We’re just going to have to agree to differ on that one. Not everyone who says they are a thing, is that thing. But maybe that also comes back to the greater scepticism FWR as a community has for “trans rights”.

Why?

I don't think anyone is a fake feminist. They are just feminists with opposing viewpoints on the direction feminism should take.

People have objected to that description before. It’s misleading, I think.

At least some people thought it was to lift or prioritise GC views and one poster was even surprised by the board's description.

Those subgroups are wrong. They are the fake feminists. Equality for women is never going to be achieved by centring men.

Yes that's your opinion and I'm not here to discuss that because I think it is irrelevant to the wider fact that feminism has many subgroups who only share the loose principle of equality for women.

Some subgroups would argue that GC feminism isn't feminism. I'm sure we have all heard that argument. And I'd say the same thing back. Something doesn't have to align with YOUR feminist views to be feminist. Women aren't a monolith, whoever women are, you are never going to achieve equality for all of us with one political movement. There will always be things specific to our womanhood but intersecting with our other labels and identities that mean we will have varied and sometimes opposing subgroups.

Agree.

It’s a complete non point. No one thinks genderist views should be banned from FWR. They just aren’t popular here. Or with the country in general, if you look at what people really think.

If someone said they were a passionate feminist and that men were more powerful than women so all women should be looked after by their male family members at all times for their own comfort and safety, would you believe them? Would you just think it was a “different type of feminism”?

Every feminist feels that their feminism at least attempts to do that. My intention here isnt to rehash our personal feminist views. I'm building on the point that as the group is intended for feminists, and not a subgroup of feminists, it was never intended to prioritise the voices of GC feminists. At most, it was to allow all views in a online world where GC views were/are becoming more frequently forbidden.

It is for feminists. Not GC feminists.

Having been making this point many times a month for bloody years, I promised myself not to bother any more. But just for you ... Feminism is by definition gender critical. There are two reasons for this:

1. It's about female people, their rights and freedoms. It must by nature be opposed to any belief that males may be women or girls.
2. Gender - the set of cultural expectations and impositions that societies place on their members according to sex - is an instrument of patriarchy, universally used to oppress women and girls. Feminism is therefore deeply critical of gender.

Good for you. It makes me a feminist who centres women and girls as the entire point of feminism.

Yes and that makes you a certain type of feminist. I am very passionate about a certain type of feminism related to my demographic. There are several subgroups of feminists. I don't agree with the views or priorities of some of them - in fact I vehemently disagree - but it doesn't change that they think that is the way to achieve liberation and equality for women.

I mostly disagree with those I disagree with as I think they are blind to some or several issues.

It isn't shit. It's the literal definition of feminism. You say debate is the life blood of politics, but obviously this thread exists because of complaints of derailing. Some posters have observed that these complaints are often used to stifle opposing viewpoints.

Your first paragraph is shit. It's incorrect, vaguely worded and (imo) dumb. As previously mentioned, I'm not going to give you a Feminism 101.

Your second paragraph's ludicrous. You don't even know what feminism is, having seemingly defined it as some sort of afternoon chat at the spa. It is, however, politics. Debate is the life-blood of politics. It is not a 'danger'.

I would say feminism is about the liberation and equality of the female sex, women and girls. There can be many nuances but any feminism that focuses on men is fake feminism, in my opinion.

I love debating. I’m happy to discuss with genderists why I don’t agree with them.

Feminism doesn't have defined principles. It has one defined principle - equality for women. Different groups of feminists have varied approaches on how that equality should be achieved and what issues are of most priority. There isn't one feminism and then other types of feminism are fake. There isn't one feminist political movement.

And that's part of the problem with the board. It is for feminists. Not GC feminists. That's why every thread is in danger of being a debate.

So?

As I said, it’s just reality. If you come steaming into a discussion you are poorly informed about and say “you are wrong because (poor reasoning) and I’m not going to stick around and listen to any explanation why I might be wrong”, people are going to draw conclusions. If you don’t care what people think of you, it doesn’t matter, as you say, does it?

Lots of people on here likely use Reddit. I've seen it mentioned lots of times in threads.