Thread derailment

The operative word is IF. And since I haven't really seen anyone challenging the posters who said the board is primarily for GC feminists, in fact theyve posted in support of it, i can only think they have a common perception of this section of Mumsnet.

Only one issue or identity or label really links us but away from that one issue, our commonalities are few.

Agreed. We're all women.
Although I take issue with the word 'identity'.

If you're including people that underpin our oppression, there is precious little point to having a movement at all.

This is a salient point. Often people seem to think that feminism, or every person who posts on FWR, or anyone who believes sometimes sex is important, all agree on everything. This is a very juvenile opinion and it's important to remember that we can fight for female equality even if our priorities are all different.

We've already, in this thread, had one sole person give an off-hand example of a Marxist board only to have someone demonstrate that they believe this is representative of what 'GC people as a whole' think here:

However, it makes more sense why the GC people see is as derailing if they think this is akin to a Marxist Socialist board where people with a specific viewpoint are invited to congregate.

The views of one are being ascribed to 'GC people' - 'they'. On the basis on one person posting it.

Who isn't GC on this thread?

Feminism that isn't GC.

Most Feminism includes men to the extent that it recognises how gender roles and the patriarchy harms everyone. Lots of feminists belive a more equal society will give men more true choice about how they live their lives.

A simple example being that equal pay for women will mean more families have a real choice about who goes back to work and on what basis. A lot of families simply couldn't afford to live on the woman's equally grafted but much lower pay, so the man has to return to FT work and the woman may have to sacrifice her career.

The thing is, and I know this from my subgroup of feminism, it probably won't be as simple as that. As well as being GC, GC feminists will hold a variety of other identities, labels and/or experiences which will mean they have different views on several other issues affecting women and girls.

So when it comes to all GC feminists holding a consistent "internally coherent view" about what needs fighting for and how to fight for it, you'll struggle. It goes for every subgroup. Only one issue or identity or label really links us but away from that one issue, our commonalities are few.

My particular subgroup are very split on issues like abortion, religion and sex generally.

What type of feminism includes men?

Okay and again that's your opinion and why you are a GC feminist. That isn't the only type of feminism though.

That's my point: it doesn't matter whether other groups think that GC feminists are not feminists. What matters is whether GC feminists hold an internally coherent view with regards to fighting for women's rights.

And that equality will NEVER be achieved when men are included.

The intersectional bit was added when mumsnet last changed the description. I think that the change was made maybe a year ago

I googled this and nowhere that I found do the OWC profess to be feminist. In fact, I found they are openly anti-feminist. They describe themselves as an International Islamic Organization or something. So it's a bit of a moot point. They don't describe themselves that way because they don't have feminist principles.

Can you find anything that says they are a feminist group?

And they'd disagree back and use that as a reason why GC feminism isn't feminist. Every subgroup could do this but it is largely a waste of time. Feminism has many different approaches. The only core principle is the quest for equality.

@alamak gave an example which was better than mine. This is not a feminist movement, is it?

Ideologies that scorn women’s rights are not “subgroups of feminism”, it’s a laughable claim.

I disagree. Being potentially wrong about how to fight for someone, doesn't mean you're not fighting for them in the first place. In fact, that's an issue faced by all women, since whichever kind of woman you are, you can find feminist groups out there who fight for your rights "in the wrong way", or even fight for right you don't want! Trans men are nothing special in that regard.

And that’s your opinion, with which I completely disagree, as I’ve been clear on.

Don't feed the troll, there's no arguing with stupid, don't fight with pigs you will get muddy and they enjoy it, etc etc etc. Everyone needs to show more restraint and impulse control and ignore, ignore, ignore.

That's your opinion. However, it is feminism as its goal is equality for women and it has a targeted approach in how to achieve that. Not all feminists would agree with said approach or common values in that subgroup.

I don’t normally do it, only when it’s raised and relevant.

I didn't say you are derailing here in this thread. I said at least some of time, wanting to discuss who is a real feminist will be derailing on other threads about sex and gender.

And I don’t normally go around telling these fake feminist people they aren’t feminist, because it’s confrontational (which is more than I can say for them). But it’s still my opinion.

Gender identity ideology is not feminist. Feminism is about women’s sex based rights and position in society. Including those women who mistakenly think they can opt out of facing misogyny and sexism by claiming to be male.

I’m not derailing, you raised this issue. Or someone did and you eagerly waded in to explain what the board is supposed to be about.