Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

"Trans people have always been here!"

208 replies

GoldenBracelet · 09/12/2025 18:49

God I'm tired of reading "Trans people have always been here!", like it's some kind of unarguable gotcha 🙄

Yes, there have always been men who think they are women.
No, they have never been women.

See also women who think they're men.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
VoodooQualities · 09/12/2025 19:14

No problem, I probably came over tetchy - I'm in a bad mood because I've had to miss out on my works Xmas party I've been looking forward to for ages!

Original poster
GoldenBracelet · 09/12/2025 19:11

VoodooQualities · 09/12/2025 19:08

I wasn't having a go at you, I was agreeing with you

😳

In my defence, I am getting over a virus and am a bit tetchy. Hence this thread 😆

OP posts:
VoodooQualities · 09/12/2025 19:08

I wasn't having a go at you, I was agreeing with you

Original poster
GoldenBracelet · 09/12/2025 19:07

VoodooQualities · 09/12/2025 19:01

They probably have but I don't see the relevance to the discussion going on today. Literally nobody I know denies that being gender dysphoric (narrow category), or 'being trans' (broad category) exists as a human condition or way of living.

Whether trans people have existed since time immemorial, or if they all popped into being in the past decade, the question still remains: is it best to organise society's segregated spaces according to sex, or gender identity?

Yes. Obviously. I know that. Here I am on this board.

I'm just discussing an expression I am seeing from trans identified men as the new gotcha #nodebate.

You know it's not a good argument. I know it's not a good argument. We both know there are no good arguments for delusion. I'm just discussing what they're saying.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 09/12/2025 19:04

FrippEnos · 09/12/2025 18:59

My personal issue with this is that it tries to make history conform to modern day descriptions and values.

Yes there have always been transvestites, yes there probably has been men that have AGP. Yes there have been drag acts for a long time and male actors that played female parts.

But non of them should be shoe horned in to the modern day description of transgender.

Show quote history

And women who wouldn’t submit to the constraints their society tried to impose on them.
Though even then they’re often being viewed through the distorting lens of today’s assumptions.

Original poster
GoldenBracelet · 09/12/2025 19:04

FrippEnos · 09/12/2025 18:59

My personal issue with this is that it tries to make history conform to modern day descriptions and values.

Yes there have always been transvestites, yes there probably has been men that have AGP. Yes there have been drag acts for a long time and male actors that played female parts.

But non of them should be shoe horned in to the modern day description of transgender.

Show quote history

Well there's that too. But "We have always been here!" seems to be the newest rallying cry. Retrofitting history has been going on for a while.

OP posts:
VoodooQualities · 09/12/2025 19:01

They probably have but I don't see the relevance to the discussion going on today. Literally nobody I know denies that being gender dysphoric (narrow category), or 'being trans' (broad category) exists as a human condition or way of living.

Whether trans people have existed since time immemorial, or if they all popped into being in the past decade, the question still remains: is it best to organise society's segregated spaces according to sex, or gender identity?

FrippEnos · 09/12/2025 18:59

GoldenBracelet · 09/12/2025 18:49

God I'm tired of reading "Trans people have always been here!", like it's some kind of unarguable gotcha 🙄

Yes, there have always been men who think they are women.
No, they have never been women.

See also women who think they're men.

My personal issue with this is that it tries to make history conform to modern day descriptions and values.

Yes there have always been transvestites, yes there probably has been men that have AGP. Yes there have been drag acts for a long time and male actors that played female parts.

But non of them should be shoe horned in to the modern day description of transgender.

Swipe left for the next trending thread