Fears Labour’s Islamophobia definition could silence women’s rights campaigners - Baroness Falkner

Exactly.

You spoke of Muslims as if they are all men out to harm women. No you didn't seem to acknowledge that there are Muslim women at all

I dont believe you.

People that actually know Muslims wouldnt be thinking about child grooming gangs etc no more than I'd think a white teen is an incel who is about to go and molest some children or shoot up a school.

How many white Jehovah Witnesses do you know who have been ex communicated?

Did I say they weren't?

The problem with this view is that Muslims share diverse ethnic and cultural backgrounds on a worldwide scale. Child marriage & FGM are very particular practices to certain areas in North Africa rather than globally. Cousin marriage rates vary by region, community, and education level, with roots in tradition, tribal solidarity, and economic reasons that don't necessarily apply globally or in western settings. Therefore to assume these are typical behaviours of Muslims particularly in the west is not only false but creates a damaging view of them. That's not to say the practices themselves shouldn't be called out rather they shouldn't be ascribed broadly as they shouldn’t those of Christian or fundamentalists or Orthodox Jews to Christians or Jews.

In terms of women being silenced & abused in relationships, this certainly isn't exclusive to muslims & again should be called out generally.

Blasphemy laws by definition protect only one religion, "ecumenical blasphemy law" is an oxymoron.

Because many Labour supporting posters on MN want to sneer and put you in a box they can simply dismiss. It’s uncomfortable for them to confront their own biases, especially when there’s a hint of wrongthink involved if they do.

Indeed.

Try looking at where that 6% live and consider how our fptp voting system might work in their favour.

Jess Phillips’ constituency is 45% Muslim, a number of other constituencies are similar.

Obviously they are not going to gain a majority in the next election, or the one after that but if you consider the influence they already have over our government hoping not to lose a number of important seats, it gives them power.

Have you considered the fact that our Home Secretary is Muslim? Does she have a conflict of interest with her faith and her responsibility to the country? Only time will tell but it is a very arrogant person that doesn’t look at history and learn from it.

We gave posters on here from countries that have been taken over fully by Islamists and they are trying to warn us of the intentions s of some. Who is listening to those Muslims?

Even Baroness Falkner is trying to warn us

“If they’re going to bring in yet another area where, for example, anyone who’s defending women’s rights is going to be accused by those ethnic minority men of Islamophobia, if they dare say something about how Muslim women are suppressed.
“I’m a Muslim woman myself. I know all about this.
“I know the community.”

Listen to what she is saying., that is a very polite but clear warning.

I think generally the ability to have an informed discussion about anything in the UK is nearly impossible, not just because of twitter etc., but the MSM screaming headlines.

Do you think your rude and dismissive comments invoking Farage etc are helping or hindering that ‘informed discussion’?

You have admitted yourself that they have no official definition of Islamophobia so how are they counting ‘Islamophobia’??

Wow! That’s rather rude. No matter, I’ll tell you what’s in my head, thanks for asking.

Have you noticed how eager our government are to appease this proportion of the 6%?

So far, on their behalf, the PM has refused to supprt the Private Members bill to ban first cousin marriage. Many of his MPs agreed with that. Repeated first cousin marriage causes a possible 5000-7000 severely disabled babies to be born per year and costs the NHS significant amounts. Any criticism of the practice is strongly discouraged in the NHS.

Jess Phillips was appointed to lead the grooming gangs inquiry despite a clear conflict of interest with her constituency at 45% Muslim (obviously many Muslims are as disgusted at the grooming hands as we are but a worrying number think it’s perfectly acceptable). She has deliberately derailed the inquiry already and taken the focus away from the specific problem presented by Pakistani Muslim men and their specific MO. This morning it was reported on the news that despite the inquiry being called months ago, the government haven’t even contacted police forces to order them to preserve grooming gangs evidence. Apparently significant amounts has ‘disappeared’ already. 23 laptops ‘went missing’.

Despite warnings from other countries, as PP mentions above, the government have refused to proscribe the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organisation and appears to be talking to them informally. These talks will not involved them being told ‘no’.

Our PM has personally promised Muslims that there will be an Islamophobia law. If you see the extremely broad definition the Labour Party have already adopted to see the direction of travel.

The government are turning a blind eye to sharia courts (we have the highest number in Europe), and animal cruelty in the name of halal slaughter. There are areas of the country where people are harassed with impunity by Muslims for bringing their dogs (some Muslim groups hate dogs, a council area in Wales even proposed officially banning dogs altogether) There are areas where the 5am call to prayer is broadcast regardless of whether non Muslim residents are happy about it.

There are a number of Muslins in positions of great power, how many of them are allowing their faith and beliefs to get in the way of balancing the interests of ALL British?

I don't understand a word of that.
Were you praising Kishwar Faulkner or not?
You brought up Tommy Robinson not me.
Last time I looked we have a sectarian party The Muslim Vote in parliament. The influence of Muslims in Labour councils over grooming gangs and policing etc is obvious. The behaviour of some Muslim men during the general election was intimidating in a way I've not seen before.

As Sara Khan pointed out many moderate Muslims including women are suffering abuse by other Muslims and we need to support and protect them.

Sure, why not? I said a base, not an entire base. It helps if that voting bloc have money, influence and the ability to organise as well. Which they do, clearly.

Labour aren't doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. They see a political advantage here.

Labour aren't interested in protecting women's rights, they have made that perfectly clear following the FWS SC ruling.

Obviously.

Do you think forced/child marriage, FGM, first cousin marriage or grooming and raping white girls is oppressive to women?

I have several Muslim friends. One was excommunicated by her family because she wanted to live a normal life. Is that oppressive enough for you?

You might have missed my question above. Here it is:

Do you think Muslim women deserve the same human rights and protection by the law as all other women? Or not?

I'm confused. I thought you were praising Kishwar Faulkner's courage.
But it is quite something that in the face of Labour thinking they are leading the world in tackling Islamaphobia Falkner is prepared to say she can see it being used by men to attack women.

Now you're just back on the Tommy Robinson red herring.

For a minority Muslims seem to be doing ok to me in the political power and influence department.

I'm genuinely confused. All recent reporting has said Labour appear to be scrapping the plans to introduce a new definition of Islamophobia. That doesn't seem to have changed?

but because of the increase in Islamaphobia.

If we haven’t got an official definition of Islamophobia, how are they identifying and reporting these claimed instances of Islamophobia’?

Or are they just counting everything and anything experienced by Muslims as ‘Islamophobia’ and then saying ‘oh look, increasing Islamophobia, we must change the law to stop it’.

Straight out of the trans activists playbook.

The Government is acting to try to appease a voter base. Nothing, absolutely nothing, is done to defend anything but their own position of power and their financial backers. It is beyond naive to think otherwise.

You have patronised and minimised a response by dismissing it as Farage rubbish. That is what prevents a good faith, sane discussion. That is why Reform are growing, because they seem to be the only people willing to at least pretend to listen to communities that have been abandoned for years. I don't like not support Reform, but they are filling a void and after seemingly managing to engage previously disenfranchised groups. Dismissing them just pushes them further away.

This issue has been longstanding, nothing has been done because it will have negative consequences despite all the lobbying in favour. Now Labour is in power I fear they will capitulate to placate their base. The more fuss made now the better.

I agree with Sara Khan when she was Lead Commissioner for Countering Exteremism.

Sara Khan explained unequivocally in response to the proposed definition of Islamophobia: “This failure to recognise that Muslims can be abused, attacked, even killed, by other Muslims because of their “Muslimness’ is a blind spot in our public debate and detrimental to the well-being of British Muslims and those of Muslim heritage.”
Therefore, this relentless campaign around defining Islamophobia appears to be an effort to give privilege to a particularly vocal and extremely conservative section of Muslim communities who seek impunity in leveling allegations of “Islamophobia” at dissidents who are liable to be punished either by blatant smears at best or by extrajudicial execution at worst.

Conspicuously, the proposed definition of Islamophobia would likely increase hostility towards progressive people many folds, especially after they have criticized the term islamophobia for its misuse.