Girlguiding - Supreme Court Decision email

Boys have plenty of male and mixed sex groups where they can feel included.

It is such a testament to the entitlement of males that they think they should have access to everything, including groups which are only for girls. How selfish can you get?

Because categories exist for a reason.

I'm sure there are lots of teenagers who would absolutely love to be in the Brownies. In fact, I would probably love to be in the Brownies. It looks like lots of fun. But teenagers and adults can't join the Brownies, because it's for girls aged 7-10.

I expect some adults and teenagers feel sad about it, and no doubt they would feel especially sad if the Brownies had for some time been letting in a few teenagers they regarded as exceptions to the rule. But it doesn't matter if they feel sad, because the age limit exists for a reason. And if you're above that age limit, then there are plenty of other organisations you can join.

The GG org should certainly show some regret for ever allowing any boys to join GG. Cruel of adults to collude in a fantasy and then have to pull the magic rug out from under their feet.

It's almost as if girls don't exist for you in any story. You automatically look at the story from the boy's point of view. You have a very severe case of what is known as 'himpathy'.

Including male children in a female single sex provision is not inclusive to those female children who need that provision to be female only.

Why should people ‘show some regret’ ? Empathy - sure. I can empathise that male children had been told by adults that they could access female single sex spaces when this was contradictory to the law and to the needs of the female children who need the group to be only female people. Those male
children should never have been accepted into the groups or told by adults that they were girl guides.

However, I also have empathy for the GG leaders who tried to raise the alarm about this issue and were demonised and silenced if they wanted to stay as leaders.

If a male child’s happiness is based on them being accepted as being a female child when they are materially not female, there are much more significant things to be concerned about in their life.

The safeguarding failure of GG around these male children accessing female single sex provisions is hugely concerning.

GG leader here - you are awesome 🙌

Some people seem to forget that girlguiding UK is part of an international organisation. In other parts of the world, it is only allowed ro exist as it is a female only organisation, and girls don't have the luxury of identifying out of the system.

In the UK, for the most part, our children have the privilege of being able to do hobbies regardless of their sex, religion, sexuality, race... and indeed "gender".

Guides can show how inclusive they are by promoting that whatever gender the children identify as, that all girls (i.e. biologically female) are welcome.

(As a Scout leader... yes we except Trans children. We support them the same as any other. But we won't put anyone into a position where their sleeping arrangements make them uncomfortable... so no, they wouldn't be allowed to just choose an opposite sex tent for example. )

Anyone who doesn’t understand the need for single sex organisations for girls and women must have had a very narrow and sheltered life. Otherwise I can’t understand their lack of compassion and empathy - what is wrong with these people?

Girl Guides didn't want gender non-conforming boys.

They only wanted boys who were prepared to toe the line and agree that their personality and interests were so abnormal for a boy that they must be a girl. They wanted total gender conformity.

I imagine that, many parents took their girls to Rainbows and Brownies assuming it’s a girls-only space. I know I was surprised when I realised that boys were allowed. It’s was not clear on their website at all.

What motivation do you have to allow males into female spaces and shout down any safeguarding concerns?

Let's hope nobody in yours is ever a female who needs a single sex space. They'd clearly get no understanding or support from you if they were. Disgusting.

What is wrong with people?

Whereas I am struggling to understand your reasoning.

I am sure that many boys would like to join friends and sisters at Guides and Brownies. Guides could become a mixed sex organisation and include them, or (as it has been forced to do) just make it clear that it's a single sex organisation.

Instead, up till now, its policy has been to promote the premise that boys and girls must conform to stereotypes, and anyone who doesn't conform has the wrong body. Girls who don't agree to this must be told that they should doubt what they can see, and that their boundaries are meaningless.

Sorry, but I'm don't see the humanity in any of that.

Can you really not see what was wrong with their previous policy?

Those who fully support people living their authentic lives without question this is Stefonknee who is apparently a 6 year old girl

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/transgender-father-stefonknee-wolscht-who-left-family-to-be-a-sixyearold-girl-uses-child-s-play-to-escape-adult-life-a6775051.html

Should Stefonknee be allowed to join girl guides?

If not, why not? By your logic she is a 6 year old girl after all...

I don't know whether I am more irritated or concerned that Girl Guides don't seem to understand how regressive their policy was. They weren't being 'inclusive'. They were just reinforcing stereotypes and teaching girls that their boundaries mean nothing.

Boys have plenty of places to be included though, don't they?
We care about the girls who can't go to Guides because they need a space away from boys, or their parents want them in a single sex organisation due to their religion.
We care about girls who just WANT a single sex space.
I'm sorry that you don't like feminism that doesn't centre men and boys. But that's what feminism is.

What is wrong with people? I don’t understand why anyone would be so happy to tear away something that gives a young person happiness and makes them feel included. And God forbid someone would show some humanity and show some regret for having to do so.

I have to say, I'm having a busy week!

Well done that mother who gave GG notice that she was taking them to court! And thank you.

Here’s the Times coverage

https://www.thetimes.com/article/7c98a481-d4fc-4f32-9d02-0acb461ac442?shareToken=e8bbce7f27640b95b465d42e0d323497

comments that I’ve read so far positive, with quite a few criticising the headline etc for its use of ‘trans girls’.

Scouts can have mixed sex sleeping if it is approved by parents. It is not the norm.

I have boys in scouts but haven't dug into their transgender policies as not relevant to their group. I think it is very much 'young person can use the facilities that match their gender' and other parents not told so very much a potential safeguarding issue.

I saw this come up on my feed on FB on a GG page. I was amazed that a high number of the comments underneath were wailing about what an injustice this was, "Not my Girl Guiding", I'm going to leave, etc. Those that were brave enough to say it's the right decision to safeguard girls were jumped on and told trans girls are girls etc. Madness!

Do the scouts separate by sex when it comes to sleeping arrangements etc? Would a male child who thought they were trans be placed with girls?

People with kids in the trans Thrall will be upset. Their close friends will sympathise and everyone else breathes is sigh of relief.
The relief is silent as we do not want to upset people. Because we have always been kind.

Slowly things will drift back to normality but so slowly it'll feel almost invisible.

Trans girls have scouts! Scouts for some time has been accepting girls and boys in an inclusive fashion so there is no exclusion here. Guides should be safe space for girls in a society there many single sex organisations are on the wane. Personally I feel my girls like the more active scout activities but certainly guides offers something important in terms of a girl only space.