Girlguiding - Supreme Court Decision email

Yep….some folks hate being told “no”.

Give it a rest. GG relies on single sex exemption to ensure that its girls only (otherwise they would have to allow boys to join and not just the ones with special feelings). Girls are allowed to have their own stuff and are not responsible for making special boys happy.

Thanks!

Here's a different spin on the situation. We hear a lot about adults who have gender dysphoria (both heterosexual males and homosexual males) who seem to have developed it via a cross-dressing incident in their childhoods. Very typical of AGP males.

I wonder whether parents sending their boys off to girl guides actually causes and increases gender dysphoria?

you only ever need to go to archive.ph and put the URL in

https://archive.ph/wJI5g

It's like the argument with the Hampstead ladies pond

There is a man's pond
A women's pond
A mixed sex pond

Trans rights activists don't want to use the mixed sex pond
They want the ladies pond to become mixed sex so that they effectively can use 3 ponds and women who can't be in a swimming costume in front of males for religious, trauma or just because of personal reasons have none

Why?

This is so important. That girl's needs could only be served by a single sex space.
Parents who claim their boys are trans-identified can send them to do a mixed sex hobby instead. The vast majority of groups for children are mixed sex. Scouts is one example. If they've made friends in Guides, they can stay friends outside of Guides.
So it really is not some kind of awful tragedy to say that this one organisation, set up specifically for girls, should be for girls.

Does anyone have a share token for this (old, 2022) article about Katie Alcock please?

Trying to share info on the case with a friend. Thanks

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/society/article/girlguiding-tied-itself-in-knots-over-trans-rights-kn89nx6xm

If you look at school playgrounds, they are very frequently dominated by boys playing football across the major part of them, whilst girls are forced out to the fringes, still having to avoid flying footballs. This is just addressing the same frequent issue in a club context.

Obviously there are boys who don't want to join in the football, and girls who do - who would most probably find themselves best served and 'find their tribe' in one of the various mixed-sex groups, if they find the activities in single-sex clubs for their own sex unappealing.

There was a poster on here once who described how the one evening per week at old school female-only Guides was the only place she ever felt safe in her childhood (she was being sexually abused by a male relative at home).

I thought of her when I read of the GG HQ's "heavy heart".

Yes, you'd think that it was a hospital ITU or something - nominally allocated to one group but cruelly denying access to an emergency involving somebody from outside that group whose life was hanging in the balance!

It's not like this is the only leisure/social activity club in the country that's available to children; there are numerous ones - some for girls, some for boys and some mixed, so everybody is served. Even if there isn't anything that suits/appeals anywhere near your area, there's nothing stopping you from setting one up.

It's a bit like wailing and gnashing your teeth about being forced to starve to death because a local branch of Asda is closing down, when there's a huge Tesco right next door!

Girl only groups evolved to provide girls a setting for becoming involved with activities and oportunities previously closed to them. They also act as a safeguarding measure for the sorts of vulnerabilities to which girls can be particularly prone.

Girls have humanity too. 'Girls only' groups/school/sporting events evolved to provide girls with the sorts of opportunities and activities that would once have been largely closed to them. They also provide girls respite from the sexual attention of male people, and the inhibitive atmosphere that can sometimes be engendered when males and females mix together. A lot of this comes down to safeguarding.

Who are the lead voices in this organisation, do you know the names?

I've got a sense, maybe misguided, that organisations such as the Girl Guides and the Women's Institute may be home to some women whose husband's are AGP/cross dressers ( there are clearly a lot of men who engage with this practice), and we know how emotionally manipulative and demanding such men can be. See the Trans Widows thread.

Brings to mind 'The Beaumont Society' which used to be the premier organisation for cross dressing men (and their wives) - but which has now transformed itself into a fully fledged trans organisation. Women who have been railroaded in this way could well be more prone to making excuses for such men. Why else would a woman go along to a weekend retreat, the sole purpose of which was to provide a setting for her husband to crioss dress and play act along with other such men?

The letter is appalling.

They show no remorse, no understanding that what they were doing before was wrong and they still have no concept of safeguarding.

I wouldn't let my kids near this organisation.

There was a comment on that LinkedIn, along the lines of, what next, girls being thrown out because they like lighting fires and getting muddy.

Totally giving the, highly sexist, game away, that she knows full well that trans girls are boys, not girls.

So many people are outraged precisely because they know these are boys.

The logic is painful. Using their own, embedded, gender stereotyping to complain about gender stereotyping.

So good to come here and read this, thought I was in some crazy parallel universe reading the email and all the comments about how tragic this is on Facebook.

As cruel and inhumane as you see me for saying no to men, I see the same in people who are up for forcing women to accept men into their spaces.

But the difference is I do have sympathy for kids encouraged to think this was okay and they are the opposite sex and who are now in the middle of a shitstorm. While I see very little empathy from trans allies for girls who will have self excluded.

Thanks, that's interesting to read - and quite an unfortunate surname, isn't it?!

When I looked, the first comment was from somebody called David who gave what you would have thought was the common sense view (paraphrasing from memory): "Girls are female and transgirls are male, so of course the latter aren't included. The clue is in GIRL Guiding".

No nastiness or insults at all; just simple facts - but that comment went pooft very quickly. Unlike the BBC, they don't even replace it with "This comment has been removed because...." - it's just rewriting recent history, as if nobody had ever said it in the first place.

Sorry, accidentally quoted the wrong post.

But the initial post from the leader of the Directory of Social Change is so confused:

I really hope that The Scouts retain their inclusive policy and welcome with open arms those girls who have been abandoned by the Guides.

The Guides are free to become a mixed sex organisation if they choose, and there is no suggestion that the Scouts will stop being one.

I’d also be highly surprised if the majority of the thousands of young girls currently in the Guides support this decision.

But if you are in the assumed minority of girls who need or want an organisation that excludes boys, presumably you aren't marginalised, but just a bitch.

Are they still allowing male leaders who identify as female ? Because a few years ago wasn't there an issue with a TIM girl guiding leader who was being protected by the GGs organization despite him posting all these whacko photos of himself online doing strange things?

Those male children should never have been accepted into the groups or told by adults that they were girl guides.

And given that @KatieAlcock and Helen Watts raised concerns in 2018, they have had plenty of time to review their policies.

Interesting comments on this LinkedIn post from the leader of The Directory of Social Change - people are being brave enough to calmly point out biological facts - rare in the Third Sector…

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214_i-an-deeply-dismayed-to-hear-that-girlguiding-activity-7401687869469392896-94-C?utm_medium=ios_app&rcm=ACoAAAMtzTsBsBmh0gzm3dMWHbi8G9ep3BMJmHM&utm_source=social_share_send&utm_campaign=copy_link