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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'He has a point, but he's too blunt.' JKR

164 replies

IwantToRetire · 01/12/2025 18:37

In response to " Interesting interview with @Glinner on @GBNEWS a few minutes ago about the trans debate. It's interesting how the tide is turning in his favour. I've seen old friends who shunned him admit he has a point but that he was too blunt. Even that would was unthinkable a few years ago. "

From the start, a key tactic of the gender identitarians has been linguistic prescription, and it's proved shockingly successful. Trans activists' shibboleths and euphemisms have been allowed to penetrate the upper echelons of our culture with devastating consequences to freedom of speech and belief. Huge swathes of liberal media, the arts, academia and publishing have thrown themselves with gusto into the defence of a quasi-religious belief causing provable real world harm, and in their arrogance they've been outraged when people they assumed were part of their In Group have refused to march meekly along in lock step.

Time and again, I've seen and heard well-educated people who consider themselves critical thinkers and bold truth-tellers squirm when put on the spot. 'Well, yes, maybe there's something in what you're saying, but it's hateful/provocative/rude not to use the approved language/pretend people can literally change sex/keep drawing attention to medical malpractice or opportunistic sexual predators. Why can't you be nice? Why won't you pretend? We thought you were one of us! Don't you realise we have sophisticated new words and phrases these days that obviate the necessity of thinking any of this through?'

As the vibe shifts, and a lot of people in the elite professions start trying to reposition themselves, the obvious place to start is, 'it's not that I couldn't see your point, but did you have to say it that way?' We dissenters were supposed to find a way of questioning the chemical castration of children while calling it 'gender affirming care.' We were meant to defend the rights of vulnerable women while also using female pronouns for male rapists. We should have found a way to discuss fairness for women and girls in sport, while pretending that the ineradicable physical advantage men have over women doesn't exist.

Either a man can be a woman, or he can't. Either women deserve rights, or they don't. Either there's a provable medical benefit to transitioning children, or there isn't. Either you're on the side of a totalitarian ideology that seeks to impose falsehoods on society through the threat of ostracisation, shaming and violence, or you're not. The alternative to being 'blunt' - using accurate, factual language to describe what was going on - was to surrender freedom of speech and espouse ideological jargon that obfuscated the issues and the harms caused. We've always needed blunt people, but we need them most of all when being asked to bow down to a naked emperor.

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1995491771950797148

J.K. Rowling (@jk_rowling) on X

'He has a point, but he's too blunt.' From the start, a key tactic of the gender identitarians has been linguistic prescription, and it's proved shockingly successful. Trans activists' shibboleths and euphemisms have been allowed to penetrate the uppe...

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1995491771950797148

OP posts:
Howseitgoin · 02/12/2025 08:18

AMansAManForAllThat · 02/12/2025 08:05

I’m tickled by Howse’s idea that because we know what a dog is, he can call a cat a giraffe.

Of course you are because in your'e head you get to decide who everyone else should be…just like The Patriarchy did…

Soontobe60 · 02/12/2025 08:17

Howseitgoin · 01/12/2025 20:12

You have to hand it to JKR, she really knows how to play her minions.

Like any seasoned gamblers who bluffs successfully they are masters—at least for the moment—of psychological manipulation, projecting a cool confidence when in fact only vulnerability lies beneath a thin veneer of apparent strength.

People pretending "we are winning" do so to project confidence to create a positive mindset aimed at motivating and influencing outcomes by projecting strength. It's a strategy to influence perception, a form of deception to boost morale when things are actually difficult.

Like Trump who unflinchingly uses the 'we are winning' con even in the face of obvious losing & growing disinterest, her public actions aren't about what she's thinking or feeling but designed to control the minds & hearts of the loyal she like Trump regards as hapless half wits whose emotional tail she can effortlessly wag.

If anything, this latest angle from JKR reveals only that she perceives a declining interest in the 'cause' as is the fate of many in the face of new shiny ones like immigration so a 'rallying of the troops' has been deemed a necessary 'jolt' into action.

.

Hahaha!

Helleofabore · 02/12/2025 08:14

Howseitgoin · 02/12/2025 05:21

My comment never stated vulnerability to propaganda is exclusive to women. In fact I compared JKR's followers to Trump's who are a male majority. What their followeres both have in common is a need to scapegoat, demonise & dehumanise an unjustified target for all their problems/insecurities that their puppeteers expertly pull their strings on.

Still misogynist to say that women are ‘followers’ of JK Rowling. You’re trying to parse it and justify it, but it is just another misogynist viewpoint that you have expressed.

Did you get bored of ‘whoring it up’ and blaming male people’s violent behaviour on the fact that female people exclude those male people sometimes? All these posts on MN and you still cannot recognise misogyny and you try to justify your views.

Datun · 02/12/2025 08:08

Furthermore, I'm wondering if she's looking at people bleating on about the EHRC guidance.

Because, as I asked on a thread, what's the alternative? What do they want? And I don't mean transactivists - they bloody want everything on a stick. I mean MPs, etc.

That some men are women?

That okay, men can't be women if they rape someone or in a woman's prison, or alright then, not in sport, or fair enough, not if they're teaching in a girls school, but all toilets, yes absolutely. And changing rooms. Okay, not toilets in a school, and yes, obviously not changing rooms at work, but, um other changing rooms, certain changing rooms, what about toilets in a bar??

Or, or or, but, but, but.

Nah.

It's all or nothing, yes or no, black or white, men or women.

AMansAManForAllThat · 02/12/2025 08:05

I’m tickled by Howse’s idea that because we know what a dog is, he can call a cat a giraffe.

AMansAManForAllThat · 02/12/2025 08:04

I’m not a vet, but I know a dog when I see one. 😁

Datun · 02/12/2025 07:59

She's such an exceptionally insightful woman.

The zeitgeist she's nailing is that there is no other way to deal with this issue. There never has been. And all those people who thought they could have their cake and eat it, look kind and progressive, and not actually stick it to women, are finally realising that it's not possible.

Once the actual discussion is had, instead of the euphemisms, and the walking on eggshells, bluntness is the only thing left.

When you ask all the questions, put forward all the logic, and watch the person squirm their arse off, they finally, reluctantly agree that okay, you got me,TWAM.

I'm reminded of KJK shouting he's a man at the top of her voice at the Lia Thomas swim meet. Reverberating around a shocked, and massive, public space

As nutshells go, that was so it.

And while we're on bluntness, in terms of JKR leading everybody, we were here first, akcherly, hows.

She's following us.

timenotime · 02/12/2025 07:52

Great article from JKR and really glad to see her supporting GL.

GL was utterly destroyed by TRAs. He lost the career he loved and was good at, his ability to work and earn a living, lost his family, lost his friends. He was utterly isolated and vilified. As a man, he didn’t even have the same supportive network of other women that we have had. Yet he stood firm on his principle and never backed down.

He has lived through a major, long term trauma. He’s had to move to America to try and start over.

To hear people complain that he wasn’t quite nice enough in the words he used about the group of people and movement who have deliberately sought to utterly destroy every part of his life, makes me feel a bit sick.

AMansAManForAllThat · 02/12/2025 07:39

And Kitty, you know who I’m talking about. Pretending otherwise is a juvenile as saying ‘smelt it, dealt it!’. Playground stuff.

When we see someone running around with their arms out playing aeroplanes, we don’t generally bother to remind them they can’t actually fly. Though if they start buzzing us and trying insisting we step into the road so they can use the pavement as a runway, after a couple of polite refusals we might just tell them to fuck off with their silly games and go bother someone else.

Howseitgoin · 02/12/2025 07:32

Namelessnelly · 02/12/2025 07:22

Ooh good. So when I tell a male with a trans identity he’s a man I’m not insulting him, just stating facts. That’s good to know.

By your logic 'telling' a butch lesbian they are a 'man' isn't offensive.

Denying self determination works both ways.

AMansAManForAllThat · 02/12/2025 07:22

Cattywillow · 02/12/2025 06:54

So well said by JKR. People who took the cowardly position are simply trying to shift blame. It was our fault for not saying things kindly enough. Not theirs for refusing to listen to logic. Its a tactic so often used against women, less commonly against men so perhaps that’s a silver lining?

Edited

I think men have to be significantly ruder to be targeted with that accusation! And Glinner was.

Apparently Elon Musk has a strategy about being at the cutting edge of design- if you aren’t getting regular failures, then you aren’t being bold enough. Being bold and progressing involves pushing hard at the boundaries.

We have been linguistically boxed in. It was evident even here on MN, when you could get a deletion for many, many things we wanted to say. Trans identified man, for example, was verboten. I think we still use Malaga Airport when referring to individuals, but are allowed to talk about AGP as a concept not directed at an individual.

The box is being smashed and dismantled and it’s a breath of fresh air.

Namelessnelly · 02/12/2025 07:22

Howseitgoin · 02/12/2025 06:39

Facts hurting feelings doesn't qualify as an insult….

Ooh good. So when I tell a male with a trans identity he’s a man I’m not insulting him, just stating facts. That’s good to know.

Cattywillow · 02/12/2025 06:54

IwantToRetire · 01/12/2025 18:37

In response to " Interesting interview with @Glinner on @GBNEWS a few minutes ago about the trans debate. It's interesting how the tide is turning in his favour. I've seen old friends who shunned him admit he has a point but that he was too blunt. Even that would was unthinkable a few years ago. "

From the start, a key tactic of the gender identitarians has been linguistic prescription, and it's proved shockingly successful. Trans activists' shibboleths and euphemisms have been allowed to penetrate the upper echelons of our culture with devastating consequences to freedom of speech and belief. Huge swathes of liberal media, the arts, academia and publishing have thrown themselves with gusto into the defence of a quasi-religious belief causing provable real world harm, and in their arrogance they've been outraged when people they assumed were part of their In Group have refused to march meekly along in lock step.

Time and again, I've seen and heard well-educated people who consider themselves critical thinkers and bold truth-tellers squirm when put on the spot. 'Well, yes, maybe there's something in what you're saying, but it's hateful/provocative/rude not to use the approved language/pretend people can literally change sex/keep drawing attention to medical malpractice or opportunistic sexual predators. Why can't you be nice? Why won't you pretend? We thought you were one of us! Don't you realise we have sophisticated new words and phrases these days that obviate the necessity of thinking any of this through?'

As the vibe shifts, and a lot of people in the elite professions start trying to reposition themselves, the obvious place to start is, 'it's not that I couldn't see your point, but did you have to say it that way?' We dissenters were supposed to find a way of questioning the chemical castration of children while calling it 'gender affirming care.' We were meant to defend the rights of vulnerable women while also using female pronouns for male rapists. We should have found a way to discuss fairness for women and girls in sport, while pretending that the ineradicable physical advantage men have over women doesn't exist.

Either a man can be a woman, or he can't. Either women deserve rights, or they don't. Either there's a provable medical benefit to transitioning children, or there isn't. Either you're on the side of a totalitarian ideology that seeks to impose falsehoods on society through the threat of ostracisation, shaming and violence, or you're not. The alternative to being 'blunt' - using accurate, factual language to describe what was going on - was to surrender freedom of speech and espouse ideological jargon that obfuscated the issues and the harms caused. We've always needed blunt people, but we need them most of all when being asked to bow down to a naked emperor.

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1995491771950797148

So well said by JKR. People who took the cowardly position are simply trying to shift blame. It was our fault for not saying things kindly enough. Not theirs for refusing to listen to logic. Its a tactic so often used against women, less commonly against men so perhaps that’s a silver lining?

Howseitgoin · 02/12/2025 06:39

Namelessnelly · 02/12/2025 06:35

Oooh does that mean you’ll stop insulting abd belittling women on here, or are you still struggling with that bit? Maybe more practice?

Facts hurting feelings doesn't qualify as an insult….

Namelessnelly · 02/12/2025 06:35

Howseitgoin · 02/12/2025 04:57

Look, that might work for some people whose motivations are spreading bigotry but as Piers demonstrates to Tucker here civilised people appreciate its not necessary to be insulting to support an argument.

Edited

Oooh does that mean you’ll stop insulting abd belittling women on here, or are you still struggling with that bit? Maybe more practice?

teawamutu · 02/12/2025 05:39

They say every accusation is an admission.

Has anyone got that Interruptaron meme handy?

Howseitgoin · 02/12/2025 05:21

Helleofabore · 01/12/2025 21:02

There are none so misogynistic as those who portray women as mindlessly following a ‘leader’ as if women lack the ability to think clearly and to research and form their own opinions.

I equate it with those who declare it ‘it is not what you say, it is how you say it’ to categorise someone as being a bigot for using accurate language to describe something that the majority of people agree with.

There have been at least two UK court cases where it has become very clear under testimony that those people who tend to make accusations of hate for those using accurate language can never articulate how particular concepts can be stated verbally in an acceptable way. JK Rowling is pointing at the emperor and declaring he has no clothes on in many different ways. And people
try to shame her.

My comment never stated vulnerability to propaganda is exclusive to women. In fact I compared JKR's followers to Trump's who are a male majority. What their followeres both have in common is a need to scapegoat, demonise & dehumanise an unjustified target for all their problems/insecurities that their puppeteers expertly pull their strings on.

Howseitgoin · 02/12/2025 04:57

MowingMachine · 01/12/2025 23:07

In terms of 'the cause', and taking actual people out of it, it's great to have an irritant who will keep saying the unsayable. It moves the Overton Window.

Look, that might work for some people whose motivations are spreading bigotry but as Piers demonstrates to Tucker here civilised people appreciate its not necessary to be insulting to support an argument.

Howseitgoin · 02/12/2025 04:43

ThatZanyFatball · 01/12/2025 23:18

How do you really know Trump is losing then?

By Trump failing to meet his election promises:

  1. Improved economy
  2. lower prices
  3. mass deportations rather than 'show deportations'
  4. 'America first'/no more financing other countries
  5. no more wars
  6. free speech
  7. 'draining the swamp'/no more government corruption
teawamutu · 02/12/2025 04:40

Glinner nailed it himself in the Nick Wallis interview with the Times - he's pointing to something very important, but people are looking at his finger.

That's both his curse and why he's a fucking legend in my book.

Good on JKR for saying all that.

TortillaKitty · 02/12/2025 00:39

TempestTost · 01/12/2025 22:16

In my experience the people who will say something that needs to be said, when others won't, are usually very blunt, even to the point of seeming thoughtless of others.

These same people do sometimes go to far, or are blunt about topics where maybe it it's not deserved. Because the same personality traits that allow them to say what is needed, sometimes push them to say things that aren't needed. No one always has perfect judgement.

I tend to admire these qualities and I like blunt people.

I also think that it's possible, as a totally separate phenomena, to say things in a way that is just not very easy for others to understand. It's not about being too blunt, it's more a failure to say things in a way others will understand. GL occasionally had this issue imo. If you say something, and 90% of people don't get it or misunderstand, it's probably not been expressed in a useful way.

I can identify a bully when I see one. Glinner is a bully and he carries grudges. Bluntness between two people who know each well is (perhaps) better than the same type of forthrightness online or towards someone you barely know. However this kind of discourse is becoming the norm, helped along by people like him AND the TRAs he despises.

TortillaKitty · 02/12/2025 00:24

AMansAManForAllThat · 01/12/2025 23:06

The angry men in the corner can rant if they want to. We don’t have to listen anymore. They can fuck off.

Are you talking about Glinner?

ThatZanyFatball · 01/12/2025 23:18

Howseitgoin · 01/12/2025 22:46

Uh huh, & how do you really know?

If 'winning' is as JKR implies is about language then you would need evidence confirming that most people actually in contact with trans people are refusing to acknowledge their identity &/or refuse them any rights that go along with that ….which you don't. Talk, particularly on twitter…as they say is cheap & its actions in every day scenarios that matter. Given most people are unlikely to disrespect people's choices on how they choose to live or get heavily invested in causes that don't have any real world effect on them I doubt very much anything on the ground has changed in terms how people treat trans people in their lives.

That people in general are supportive of restrictions on sports participation or medicinal intervention on minors or even believe people 'can't change sex' isn't any indication of whether they would deny trans peoples basic human rights of self determination in practical circumstances.

You seem to be confusing opinions with real world actions which we all know are 'watered down' once the rubber hits the road.

How do you really know Trump is losing then?

MowingMachine · 01/12/2025 23:09

Howse about we don't let someone boringly try to dominate the thread? 😉

Mistyglade · 01/12/2025 23:08

Howseitgoin · 01/12/2025 22:58

Look, she's a savvy individual who clearly accurately assessed him as an attention seeking opportunistic slimy toad who latched on to anything that would indulge his bigotry AND delegitimised the 'cause' by his inability to temper his bigotry. But being also the clever strategist she is exploited the opportunity of his 'win' in the courts to rally the troops AND cede to the pressure of acknowledging his 'service' as he has been begging her to do like a jilted admirer.

She must of needed a long shower after that one….

I sense a hell load of projection here pal.

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