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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'He has a point, but he's too blunt.' JKR

164 replies

IwantToRetire · 01/12/2025 18:37

In response to " Interesting interview with @Glinner on @GBNEWS a few minutes ago about the trans debate. It's interesting how the tide is turning in his favour. I've seen old friends who shunned him admit he has a point but that he was too blunt. Even that would was unthinkable a few years ago. "

From the start, a key tactic of the gender identitarians has been linguistic prescription, and it's proved shockingly successful. Trans activists' shibboleths and euphemisms have been allowed to penetrate the upper echelons of our culture with devastating consequences to freedom of speech and belief. Huge swathes of liberal media, the arts, academia and publishing have thrown themselves with gusto into the defence of a quasi-religious belief causing provable real world harm, and in their arrogance they've been outraged when people they assumed were part of their In Group have refused to march meekly along in lock step.

Time and again, I've seen and heard well-educated people who consider themselves critical thinkers and bold truth-tellers squirm when put on the spot. 'Well, yes, maybe there's something in what you're saying, but it's hateful/provocative/rude not to use the approved language/pretend people can literally change sex/keep drawing attention to medical malpractice or opportunistic sexual predators. Why can't you be nice? Why won't you pretend? We thought you were one of us! Don't you realise we have sophisticated new words and phrases these days that obviate the necessity of thinking any of this through?'

As the vibe shifts, and a lot of people in the elite professions start trying to reposition themselves, the obvious place to start is, 'it's not that I couldn't see your point, but did you have to say it that way?' We dissenters were supposed to find a way of questioning the chemical castration of children while calling it 'gender affirming care.' We were meant to defend the rights of vulnerable women while also using female pronouns for male rapists. We should have found a way to discuss fairness for women and girls in sport, while pretending that the ineradicable physical advantage men have over women doesn't exist.

Either a man can be a woman, or he can't. Either women deserve rights, or they don't. Either there's a provable medical benefit to transitioning children, or there isn't. Either you're on the side of a totalitarian ideology that seeks to impose falsehoods on society through the threat of ostracisation, shaming and violence, or you're not. The alternative to being 'blunt' - using accurate, factual language to describe what was going on - was to surrender freedom of speech and espouse ideological jargon that obfuscated the issues and the harms caused. We've always needed blunt people, but we need them most of all when being asked to bow down to a naked emperor.

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1995491771950797148

J.K. Rowling (@jk_rowling) on X

'He has a point, but he's too blunt.' From the start, a key tactic of the gender identitarians has been linguistic prescription, and it's proved shockingly successful. Trans activists' shibboleths and euphemisms have been allowed to penetrate the uppe...

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1995491771950797148

OP posts:
Greyskybluesky · 02/12/2025 09:29

Helleofabore · 02/12/2025 09:21

oh snap!

It was an incoherent post. I can only assume it was supposed to be baiting for engagement.

I'm guessing this "butch lesbian" example refers to mistaking a woman for a man in a toilet situation or something.

There was an interesting mini-discussion about this on one of the Helen Webberley threads. Basically, many women said they just don't care about sometimes being mistaken for a man. Responses ranged from amusement to indifference.

Just because it would be literal violence to a TRA to be "misgendered" doesn't mean everyone feels the same. But if you've built your life around presenting as something you're not then it's going to hurt more when people see through that.

nicepotoftea · 02/12/2025 09:29

Greyskybluesky · 02/12/2025 09:18

I do not want to engage with that poster, but why would anyone tell a butch lesbian she's a man?

We know who women are.

It's the latest way that men get to insult women while pretending to 'be kind'.

They get to tell lesbians that everyone thinks they are men while claiming concern.

MarvellousMonsters · 02/12/2025 09:28

Greyskybluesky · 02/12/2025 09:18

I do not want to engage with that poster, but why would anyone tell a butch lesbian she's a man?

We know who women are.

I think this demonstrates the incoherence and ignorance of the argument. Butch lesbians don’t think they are men, they don’t want to be men, and don’t demand he/him pronouns etc. Butch lesbians are gender-nonconforming women. Not men.

nicepotoftea · 02/12/2025 09:25

Off to self determine my way into getting a Freedom Pass.
Who is anyone to say that I am the wrong age and don't live in London?

Helleofabore · 02/12/2025 09:21

Greyskybluesky · 02/12/2025 09:18

I do not want to engage with that poster, but why would anyone tell a butch lesbian she's a man?

We know who women are.

oh snap!

It was an incoherent post. I can only assume it was supposed to be baiting for engagement.

Helleofabore · 02/12/2025 09:19

Howseitgoin · 02/12/2025 07:32

By your logic 'telling' a butch lesbian they are a 'man' isn't offensive.

Denying self determination works both ways.

This isn't even coherent.

Telling a butch lesbian that they are a man is not stating a fact and it is not an accurate description of a butch lesbian.

Greyskybluesky · 02/12/2025 09:18

I do not want to engage with that poster, but why would anyone tell a butch lesbian she's a man?

We know who women are.

Helleofabore · 02/12/2025 09:15

Howseitgoin · 02/12/2025 08:26

I never said just women are followers of JKR…. because that's self evidently false.

But do keep on either falsely quoting me or quoting me out of context that way I know I'm 'winning'….

To use an Australianism back at you, I think many of us can see just how much of a 'winner' you really are.

borntobequiet · 02/12/2025 09:11

She must of needed a long shower after that one….

We generally expect better standards of SPaG on these boards, as well as better arguments.

Helleofabore · 02/12/2025 08:55

"But in relation to the EHRC guidance. Because if it's too fucking blunt, what is the alternative?"

The guidance has to be clear and accurate. If people think that is too blunt then they are trying to control the language to keep it obfuscated and prevent it from protecting those who it intends to protect.

MarvellousMonsters · 02/12/2025 08:55

JamieCannister · 01/12/2025 18:44

To be honest, I genuinely do not think that it is possible to be too "blunt" about gender ideology, or the behaviour of certain sub-categories of people (usually men) who fall under the almost-meaningless "trans umbrella".

Obviously one can be pointlessly rude to individual trans people, or one can lie and make up fake "stats", but so long as one is being honest and not targetting anyone, then one cannot be too blunt.

Obviously one can be pointlessly rude to individual trans people, or one can lie and make up fake "stats", but so long as one is being honest and not targetting anyone, then one cannot be too blunt.

I think this touches on one of the biggest stumbling blocks. In our frustration with TRAs and individuals like Howse and Butterfly etc we sometimes allow ourselves to be drawn into petty bitchy personal attacks. I get it, I really do. The frustration, the sense of impotent rage where you want to scream basic facts into their faces, my blood pressure spikes just thinking about it.

I know some genuinely good people who have dysphoria and have ‘transitioned’ cosmetically, I bear them no ill will, I know they have huge mental health struggles that have been somewhat eased by surgery etc. But the constant use of the word ‘gender’ when we really mean sex has allowed the TRA movement to blur the truth and confuse far too many people.

The emperor is so obviously naked, but we’ve been bullied into complimenting his frock. It has to stop.

Helleofabore · 02/12/2025 08:50

I think that many of us on FWR have been on the pointy end of the pointy finger of shame for using accurate language to describe male people who demand to be treated as if they are female people. And to describe what motivations some of those male people in those demands.

There have been noticable points along the way that have pushed the Overton window though. One was the Forstater tribunal where we were told that having the view that male people cannot be female was not hateful or transphobic.

Another was ‘He’s a man!’ drifting across the pool as Thomas lined up to swim. Then came the ridiculousness of ‘rapist gender’. Then came the crystal clarity of Naomi Cunningham using male language for Upton.

It has been a journey.

Datun · 02/12/2025 08:41

I'm not on Twitter, but does anyone know if JKR has specifically addressed the issue of people thinking the EHRC guidance is 'too blunt'?

What's brilliant about her is that people do listen. Newspapers report on what she says, and her words end up all over the media.

I'd really like to see some public discussion on the exact problem she's highlighted. But in relation to the EHRC guidance. Because if it's too fucking blunt, what is the alternative?

What is it?

Because, at the moment, we've got exactly what we've always had. Airy fairy words about it being too blunt, too harsh, not fair, difficult to implement. Blah blah blah.

But absolutely zero suggestions about alternatives.

I want to hear how you can be a bit pregnant, a bit dead - and a bit female.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 02/12/2025 08:35

Just a reminder that our resident heeeerailer will be in his basement squirming with delight that yet again he's managed to get women's attention and take over the actual subject of the thread

RachelFanshawe · 02/12/2025 08:35

Why is anyone still engaging with Howse? It genuinely baffles me. Just ignore him!

RedToothBrush · 02/12/2025 08:34

Helleofabore · 02/12/2025 08:28

The emperor really is starkers and all his bollocks are on display while he proudly brings everyone’s attention to them.

He's stark bollock naked and doing a whole lot more in certain cases.

(See world's strongest woman thread).

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 02/12/2025 08:31

Howseitgoin · 02/12/2025 07:32

By your logic 'telling' a butch lesbian they are a 'man' isn't offensive.

Denying self determination works both ways.

😂😂😂😂😂You really struggle with what facts are don’t you?

Helleofabore · 02/12/2025 08:28

Datun · 02/12/2025 08:25

Did you get bored of ‘whoring it up’

Ugh. Once these people can no longer use the 'euphemisms and shibboleths', this is what you're left with.

A stark bollock naked emperor

The emperor really is starkers and all his bollocks are on display while he proudly brings everyone’s attention to them.

Datun · 02/12/2025 08:26

Howseitgoin · 02/12/2025 08:18

Of course you are because in your'e head you get to decide who everyone else should be…just like The Patriarchy did…

"Elastoplast, basket weave, bum crack"

Howseitgoin · 02/12/2025 08:26

Helleofabore · 02/12/2025 08:14

Still misogynist to say that women are ‘followers’ of JK Rowling. You’re trying to parse it and justify it, but it is just another misogynist viewpoint that you have expressed.

Did you get bored of ‘whoring it up’ and blaming male people’s violent behaviour on the fact that female people exclude those male people sometimes? All these posts on MN and you still cannot recognise misogyny and you try to justify your views.

I never said just women are followers of JKR…. because that's self evidently false.

But do keep on either falsely quoting me or quoting me out of context that way I know I'm 'winning'….

Helleofabore · 02/12/2025 08:25

“Facts hurting feelings doesn't qualify as an insult….”

Brilliant. So Facts hurting feelings also doesn’t qualify as demonisation, dehumanisation and hate.

Glad we got that sorted.

Datun · 02/12/2025 08:25

Did you get bored of ‘whoring it up’

Ugh. Once these people can no longer use the 'euphemisms and shibboleths', this is what you're left with.

A stark bollock naked emperor

RedToothBrush · 02/12/2025 08:24

Howseitgoin · 01/12/2025 20:12

You have to hand it to JKR, she really knows how to play her minions.

Like any seasoned gamblers who bluffs successfully they are masters—at least for the moment—of psychological manipulation, projecting a cool confidence when in fact only vulnerability lies beneath a thin veneer of apparent strength.

People pretending "we are winning" do so to project confidence to create a positive mindset aimed at motivating and influencing outcomes by projecting strength. It's a strategy to influence perception, a form of deception to boost morale when things are actually difficult.

Like Trump who unflinchingly uses the 'we are winning' con even in the face of obvious losing & growing disinterest, her public actions aren't about what she's thinking or feeling but designed to control the minds & hearts of the loyal she like Trump regards as hapless half wits whose emotional tail she can effortlessly wag.

If anything, this latest angle from JKR reveals only that she perceives a declining interest in the 'cause' as is the fate of many in the face of new shiny ones like immigration so a 'rallying of the troops' has been deemed a necessary 'jolt' into action.

.

Ad hominem attacks are the resort of those who have no other arguments to make.

JKR isn't the one making ad hominem attacks.

AMansAManForAllThat · 02/12/2025 08:23

Cats are never giraffes. And we all know what a dog is, and know when we are looking at one.

My friend’s Great Dane thinks he’s a lapdog. Sometimes she lets him try but it never ends well.

Mapletree1985 · 02/12/2025 08:20

Howseitgoin · 01/12/2025 20:12

You have to hand it to JKR, she really knows how to play her minions.

Like any seasoned gamblers who bluffs successfully they are masters—at least for the moment—of psychological manipulation, projecting a cool confidence when in fact only vulnerability lies beneath a thin veneer of apparent strength.

People pretending "we are winning" do so to project confidence to create a positive mindset aimed at motivating and influencing outcomes by projecting strength. It's a strategy to influence perception, a form of deception to boost morale when things are actually difficult.

Like Trump who unflinchingly uses the 'we are winning' con even in the face of obvious losing & growing disinterest, her public actions aren't about what she's thinking or feeling but designed to control the minds & hearts of the loyal she like Trump regards as hapless half wits whose emotional tail she can effortlessly wag.

If anything, this latest angle from JKR reveals only that she perceives a declining interest in the 'cause' as is the fate of many in the face of new shiny ones like immigration so a 'rallying of the troops' has been deemed a necessary 'jolt' into action.

.

I guess you have to find comfort where you can.

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