Womens sauna is for 'those who identify as women'

It seems bonkers to impose your preferences on what is a mixed sex health centre.

That critique is equally applicable to people who want an "anyone who identifies as a woman" session. Are they also "bonkers" for imposing their preferences?

So you must also prefer to swim in a pool without men? Or go to a beach without men?

Have you thought about joining a women only gym with swimming and sauna facilities?

It seems bonkers to impose your preferences on what is a mixed sex health centre.

I’ve been to many saunas and spas in Germany and they are mixed sex and fully naked, nobody bats an eyelid, I do think people need to chill on these things - if we want to import leisure activities we should also import their attitudes, it’s so refreshing

Can't you just speak to them ? If they have a trans friendly session they should be able to provide a women only session

Having lived in different countries, Britain is very separatist sexually but in Scandinavian countries everyone gets in the sauna naked whatever gender /sex. However I'm very aware that some aren't as liberal and want separate spaces which should be accommodated if they are providing alternative spaces for other groups

The special sauna sessions are not the only ones. The rest of the time, it’s probably mixed and clothed. So no boobs, no penises.
Just people in swimsuits sitting on towels.

You will look a fool for complaining because you don’t have to pick one of the special sessions, you can just not go to any of them, and still use the sauna.

I assumed Brighton

I don't know who came up with this selection of massively EA2010 breaching set of groups but they are either stupid or need an urgent conversation with their GP about their medication.

What's interesting is one of the groups is "Trans friendly" which effectively accepts that not all sessions would be trans friendly.

Which doesn't mean other users are transphobic, but that being told you have to accept trans is a negative impact on others who lose their rights by having it inflicted on them.

(But agree with others that none of the session listed would be or are legal.)

A dilemma! But the 'everyone who identifies as female ' one indirectly discriminates against men who are not trans identified, so they may be in trouble with that from the get go.

To add to the confusion, the decision in FWS said clearly (paragraph 97) that the words gender and sex were used in law and in the judgment interchangeably.

OP are you part of a women's group like WRN? It might be worth getting in touch with them and asking if they can help you out. They can contact the business directly and find out if there are female only sessions and inform the business that one of their members is concerned about the breach of the Supreme Court ruling by not having female only sessions etc.
They may also be willing to put something in the local and national press about businesses that continue to flout the SC ruling.

It's worth asking them, rather than putting yourself directly in the firing line.

I think Sex Matters has a template for these kinds of issues.

Yes, this is the case. Male and female are biological sex categories.

the idea of psycho-social gender is about performing womanhood, ‘what it is to be a woman (in society)’ likewise ‘what it is to be a man’, relating to social ideas of feminine and masculine behaviour.

That is why forms etc that muddle male and female with identity or choice make no sense, as these are immutable sex classes.

There is a lot of confusion about though, including Americans and biologists commonly using gender to mean sex, out of prudishness and because until recently there was no difference in everyday language, respectively.

a mixed gender gym is under no obligation to provide bespoke single sex gym sessions or areas, if they are clearly advertised as a mixed space.

That's true. But but they cannot hold a women+'trans women' service. We believe that is unlawfully discriminatory in various ways. Legal action against (among others) The Corporation of the City of London should make this clear.

That is Female (for anyone who identifies as female) is discriminatory, just as "no blacks" is, and "if you don't like it go somewhere else" does not make it legal.

It’s not even a mixed gender sauna though is it
Theres no session for
men or those who identify as men !!

If the sauna is exclusive to the trans community they can operate legally
If the service is offered to others then they cannot exclude non trans people to the benefit of trans people

If therefore
women have a sauna session they cannot legally allow men in. Therefore anyone who identifies as a women must actually be a biological women not a man

Either they change their sessions and signs to say trans ….
Or they have to keep the women’s sessions to women only not transwomen.

They should also have a men’s only session, they are discriminating against men aswell

Who ever started this sauna really haven’t got a clue !

they arent preventing you from using it, or anyone from using it.
none of your examples apply

a mixed gender gym is under no obligation to provide bespoke single sex gym sessions or areas, if they are clearly advertised as a mixed space. If people want a segregated gym space they can use other providers who have these

you could use another sauna?

mmhmm… no.

People who are discriminated against don’t get told if they don’t like it to take their custom elsewhere. “Don’t like that our hotel doesn’t accept black people? So sad. You’re free to go to another hotel. Don’t like that our inclusive swimming pool doesn’t let gay people in? That not a problem, you can just find a different place to swim”. Or find a different place to work, that doesn’t discriminate against pregnant women, or Jews, or Hindus. No. That’s not how the law works.

there is a current social media "reflective conversation" being discussed on multiple platforms: the bean soup theory. It’s when people respond to posts/events/etc that they are not the audience for and find a way to make it about themselves.
If this is a new sauna that has opened, and has purposefully designed and worded their provision as being open to mixed sex and multi gender sessions then maybe it's not the one for you? If you enquire about single sex sessions and they dont offer them, you could use another sauna?

Is this the case?

I've always considered it the other way round.

ie male or female (gender)

and

man or woman (sex)

Or is each pair of terms commonly used interchangeably (and confusingly) for both sex and gender?

I can't agree that woman and man are gender categories. Can you explain what you mean by gender?

Is this Camberwell? I was looking at attending the sauna, but realised there was no clear provision for women-only sessions. So I won’t go. I enjoy saunas/ baths more in countries where the norm is single SEX and nude, at any rate.

They’ve got the words wrong. Female and male are sex, woman and man are gender. So I’d ask for clarification and ask if there are any single sex sessions.

Poor transmen - what about their need to be affirmed as men? No-one seems to care about that.
I suggest you contact them and explain that your female Muslim friend is keen to attend but believes that it is contrary to her religion to be there in the presence of biological men. What are her options? Hopefully you have a female Muslim friend.