The myth of 'bathroom bans' harming 'cis' women

In a toilet context the main reason that people think that there could be men in the women’s toilets is that men are quite unashamed of boasting about using women’s toilets.

This is it.
I recall they tried "women take their toddler sons into changing rooms so hulking great middle aged men in dresses must by definition be allowed in" - and were laughed at.

This is the one they've been able to make stick as they appropriate women and girls to do it. Only useful idiots think that because wome women might be misgendered men have the right to watch women & girls undressing / on the toilet.

People need to wise up.

I can see both sides because women are harassed for not appearing to be female. (For example female athletes... there has been incidences of people declaring they "must be trans" but are just very athletic looking women!)

However I wouldn't put it past some TRAs to deliberately target women just to fabricate evidence of it happening.

Toilets have always had problems. Much of the time provision has been self policed though attendants used to be much more common.

Public toilets have been shut in huge numbers because councils can’t afford them. The maintenance costs are huge and they become unpleasant quickly. There is lots of vandalism, people use them for organised sex, to use/deal drugs, even a place to sleep. Much out-of-home provision has now been replaced by private venues.

The reasons we had door gaps was to reduce this misuse, make sure people were ok in the cubicle and for hygiene reasons - being able to swill the floor with bleachy water. Ventilation was a huge problem too and gaps ensured people weren’t breathing in pathogens and the air was more pleasant.

Single sex designs can have door gaps for health and safety. Mixed sex toilets do not have door gaps because of privacy otherwise there’s always voyeurism problems.

You can’t have a men and women using most of the provision we have in this country together. The designs have to change.

In legislation and regulations, for a mixed sex toilet, each toilet has to be in its own separate room with a sink and drying facilities. It should be enclosed and resistant to sound.

If you offer a ‘case-by-case’ basis you literally have to change every toilet to be mixed sex design as that is the provision you offer.

If you want healthier, safer designs and ones that are more likely not to be misused, and more provision in total, and cheaper to run, less queues at busy times, then single sex provision should be maintained.

ps the case-by-case basis to let some men in to women’s loos was what someone from the government was suggesting (not to do with the thread title).

Who are these gender non conforming females who, despite choosing not to adopt feminine coded forms of expression, experience harm from people not reading them as female.

Perhaps there should be a scheme for them, like TfL has for pregnant women (which came about from people not giving them the reserved seats because they didn’t believe they were pregnant.

There are lots of ways we could solve this issue if it were a genuine problem.

Quite. I'm sure it's very unpleasant to be challenged.

But I'm afraid we women have to ride that out.

I'm never sure what the takeout is supposed to be here.

Because women may get challenged in the toilets, we should roll over and give men everything they want and to hell with women's rights? Is that it?

Exactly. Put the blame squarely where it is.

Fucking Keir Starmer saying 99% of women don't have a penis???

Women are taking back their spaces. And the more men who get publicly and loudly thrown out of them, the more secure we will feel, and less jumpy we will become.

Also, all of what Datun says.

Quite.

This

🙄

Oh for heaven sake. What happened before all this?

Men weren't allowed in toilets in my parents and grandparents day, they would've been horrified at the very idea.

So if a woman who they genuinely thought was a man went in they would have confronted her. In which case it's not new.

Of course it's been exacerbated by trans ideology because now women are suspicious that men are trying to come into their toilets in stealth mode. Which they are.

Blame this on the right people. It's nothing to do with women protecting their spaces. And everything to do with men trying to breach them.

But seriously, butch women do not look like men. And it doesn't matter how feminine a woman looks. It's not about being feminine, it's about being female.

It's not about flat chests, long hair and high heels. There are six and a half thousand genetic differences between men and women, none of which involve make up.

The solution is to let it ride out until women are more confident that men aren't trying to sneak into their toilets.

Get them chucked out by security and prosecuted if they continue.

Exactly how it used to be.

Surely she's not suggesting men would lie to enter women's spaces? I thought that we were meant to believe that men in dresses were entirely trustworthy?

BTW the people who are obsessed with the notion that women are 'people who look feminine' are not the GC feminists.

It's the people who think their sex 'aligns' with something else about them - the clothes they wear or their personality or their interests.

GCs: "female doesn't mean feminine - don't conflate them"
TRAs: "they're saying only feminine people can use female toilets!!"

This canard again. It happens. As soon as the interlocutor hears my voice, she realises her error. The end.

A: "I think this is the ladies?"
Me: "I should hope so, because we've both made a mistake if it isn't."
A:😳

If trans activists need people to yell at women with short hair in the toilets to "prove a point", then trans activists will yell at women with short hair in the toilets.

It's utterly irrelevant. They will abuse and harrass regardless of what 'sex' means in the equality act. We've seen it for years. Women are collateral damage in the eternal fight to make all spaces mixed-sex.

Incredible how society managed for the last century onwards with single sex spaces with minimal problems. Yet since a group of dubious men started demanding access to women undressed / in a vulnerable state, suddenly certain woman are unsafe?

Suppose that's what happens when our leaders start spouting open lies - "TWAW, women can have a penis, sex change is great for kids" etc. Society's basic trust and respect for facts, the law and our leaders are diminished and people turn on each other.

Very sad to see.

The way to handle this is to check that they are coming from the starting point that only females are entitled to use female only provision. This needs to be established before discussing how to make sure all females feel comfortable using the provision - regardless of their appearance.

If they are using it to try and gain support for their objection to female only provision excluding males with trans identities, it’s a red herring and should be called out as such.

In toilets 🤣 Hopefully not on toilets 😂

I've posted this before but my trans man friend thinks men who identify as women should be allowed in the ladies because then they won't get challenged for looking like a man although they actually want people to think they are a man.

My friend wants to use the ladies facilities because they feel the men's are too dangerous for them but are happy for other women to have to share with men.

Men would notice they were a woman because they look like a woman despite the short hair and masculine clothes.

I hope this post makes sense but the twisted logic makes my head want to explode!

If gender-non-conforming women are being made to feel uncomfortable on toilets, that is yet another way in which this evil ridiculous gendee ideology has damaged women.
If women could trust that misogynist males would keep out of women's spaces, and that if they did invade, the woman would be backed up in a complaint rather than being treated as a bigot, this kind of questioning wouldnt happen.
Women are on high alert - and yes, probably higher alert than necessary - because of TRAs.

The letter has been signed by a number of MP’s.

The post on Facebook from Marie Goldman has attracted a great deal of interest. Close to 800 comments now. Other posts made by her team rarely attract much interest at all.Quite a mixed bag of opinions on this.