The myth of 'bathroom bans' harming 'cis' women

Why the heck do we need an expensive and long drawn out government investigation into why some TIM allegedly don’t feel safe in mens toilets? Sorry guys, but the bloody obvious reason (you can have it for free) is exactly the same as why women don’t feel safe when men muscle in on our toilets, it’s because some men, not all , are aggressive and nasty , and I am including here the TIM who think they are entitled to use womens toilets.

So really the question should be what are the nice men doing about making sure that TIM are comfortable using mens toilets so they can stay the fuck out of ours.

Think the issue was Thomas claiming to be a woman, stealing places and prizes from women swimmers and then allegedly committing indecent exposure / voyeurism in the women's changing room.

No to all of it.

Does it need explaining?

Don't know why. Ledecky was a successful swimmer and Thomas couldn't even beat RG.

Agree @Legobricksinatub

Loath as I am to engage with the midnight howler, the only reason people started searching Katie Ledecky was because of William "Lia" Thomas

I'm always baffled by this.
It also correlates interestingly I think with the historical arguments to the effect of 'some women find eg voting or working or travelling far from home stressful so no woman should put herself through that...best to leave those things to the men'. There's a very obvious regressiveness to the entire movement that is so obvious I am constantly astounded that some can't see it.

The ONLY reason there is any suggesting of women being turned away for not looking feminine enough is because MEN try to access women’s spaces. If all men, regardless of how they identified, stayed out of women’s spaces then there would be no need to ‘police’ them. The problem is men.

That’s a good point.

I think they are also trying to exaggerate the amount of stress and offence women experience by having a brief exchange to establish their sex, to the same level that misgendering is apparently literal violence to a trans person.

I’ve been misgendered a few times and have felt zero stress or offence, which does seem to match the experiences of other women.

Nope Howie.
No men perving on women and girls undressing.

No matter what argument's dredged up.

Can't sleep?

I can’t see how the vast majority of people would be impacted beyond brief inconvenience if challenged about their presence in a single sex space.

Only those who are going through the world continually thinking about how other people perceive their gender identity would be impacted differently.

There is a lot of anecdotal recounting of
“gender euphoria” when perceived as the opposite sex. I’m confused about why transwomen, described as passing so well they would be at increased risk in male loos, would avoid the possibility of gender euphoria from being challenged for being in the correct single sex space.

When the 'myth' is reality:

www.snopes.com/news/2023/07/27/katie-ledecky-trans-rumors/

Yep. It's also really weird that it(*) only ever seems to happen to the friends of women who hold neo-sexist/Genderist ideas like TWAW.

(*) by "it" I mean aggressive challenging and refusal to believe an error was made, as opposed to the far more common "hey this is the ladies!" "I am a lady" "oh - oops, yes I see you are, my apologies" that all of us who are not hyper-feminine have experienced over the years.

I can see that there are or may be obfuscated categories here. I don't want to call women/girls who say they've been incorrectly identified as men/boys liars, because of course it CAN and sometimes does happen, even if that means that the scenario is also used to legitimise false claims. Regusgirl said: We are hardwired to identify whether a person is male or female. I agree, WE are - but due to evolutionary differences and divergent priorities in terms of personal survival, ordinary men may not be quite as primed as ordinary women to detect sex as an evolutionary survival instinct - and that's without even considering how many women - estimates say 40% - suffer from rape crisis syndrome.

BUT: UK law says that provisions must be made for single-sex toileting for both women and men if desired. If some transwomen (biologically men) do not feel safe using the lavatories designated for men, can we not do a government investigation on how widespread this feeling is, and how much basis it has in reality, who is doing the threatening that makes some transwomen or nonbinary male people feel unsafe in the men's facilities? Because the right thing to do here is to make toilets (and prisons, and hospital wards, and school and recreational changing rooms) safe for everybody. Why are we (the UK government, political representatives from all parties, the media, and the public) not making THAT the main goal?

This is another example of women being impacted from men’s behaviour.

Before the TRAs decided to see just how far they could push it women would glance at other people in the loos/changing rooms. If you were unsure if they were female you would then risk assess the potential outcome before deciding whether to quietly speed your exit, delay if women/girls more vulnerable than you were present, or occasionally ask. I suspect that asking was generally aimed at people you were pretty sure were women.

Now we have women, angry from their rights being dismissed, aware that the odds of the person not being female are higher than before, challenging people in loos/changing rooms.

No one should be confronting strangers in a way which makes them afraid but that’s about the manner and language used not the question.

oh dear Lord, I’ve just described the Bananarama defence.

I get it all the time too, even the bloke who was collecting for the RLBI said thank you sir, when I put money in his pot, until I gave one of my special looks and then walked away so he could recover from his embarrassment with dignity.
I don't take offence, I certainly don't kick of with 'Madam, it's madam, I'm a WOMEN' like certain men do. 😂

They don’t care, they get a thrill out of the boundary violation and exhibitionism.

It will stop because the cost implications of making every toilet mixed sex is too great.

Morally, it should stop because single sex designs with door gaps are safer for anyone who is medically vulnerable, and for women and children who are more at risk of assaults.

No risk assessment nor equality impact assessment has ever been done on using single sex designs for both sexes. If it has, I have never seen one. All mixed sex toilet designs are completely private.

They can also change their sex marker on their birth certificates/driving licenses/medical records/passports etc.
They have more rights than anyone else.

My question is, why is this suddenly an issue now? Butch women have even experiencing this for basically their whole lives, and most have a base understanding that if you don't look like everyone else then you might be questioned, and accept that.

Thing is none of these TRAs ever cared about this until now, when they see it as something they can use to push for what they want. They don't actually care about this or they would have cared for the last thirty years - but just like intersex people or women without uteruses, they literally only pretend to care so they have another club to beat everyone over the head with.

There's no actual respect for the groups they're using.

Being sceptical, I also think that there is deliberate targetting so that they can present evidence.

As has been said before, the fact that when the vast, vast majority of women won’t challenge someone who is obviously and objectively a man, they suddenly now have the courage to challenge and verbally attack any woman that looks a bit butch is too much of a coincidence.

Boasting about it and taking photos of themselves in there to post on social media. They don't realise what a massive own goal that is.