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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Employment Tribunal finds NB does not meet PC of GR

308 replies

DrProfessorYaffle · 28/11/2025 09:33

https://www.gov.uk/employment-tribunal-decisions/h-lockwood-v-cheshire-and-wirral-nhs-foundation-trust-and-others-2401211-slash-2024-and-2407178-slash-2024

"Although the claimant has taken steps to change attributes of their sex
from female, by changing their name to a name which can be identified as of
either sex, and has changed their preferred pronouns, those are not in our
view attributes which are for the purpose of moving from one sex to the other,
they are steps in the process of moving away from the female sex to a
different gender identity, ie that of non binary. The claimant is not proposing,
nor do they intend to take any steps to reassign their sex from that of female
to male.
105. We therefore find that the claimant does not have the protected
characteristic of gender reassignment."

H Lockwood v Cheshire and Wirral NHS Foundation Trust and Others: 2401211/2024 and 2407178/2024

Employment Tribunal decision.

https://www.gov.uk/employment-tribunal-decisions/h-lockwood-v-cheshire-and-wirral-nhs-foundation-trust-and-others-2401211-slash-2024-and-2407178-slash-2024

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DrProfessorYaffle · 28/11/2025 18:29

CarefulN0w · 28/11/2025 18:24

Was going to say this. Unlike SP and the Darlington nurses.

Shouldn't this be made clear?

It is such a shame that so much of this happens under the radar.

There's no transcript, no TT, no NW and zero media and yet this is a very important case with huge relevance to other cases.

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bringonyourwreckingball · 28/11/2025 18:27

Taylor was a terrible decision though. And bollocks to landmark it’s only tribunal level so zero precedent value. And by terrible I mean very badly reasoned not just that I disagree with the outcome

CarefulN0w · 28/11/2025 18:24

Talkinpeace · 28/11/2025 17:38

I will lay good odds that the Claimant was supported and funded by their trade union
probably one of the usual offenders - Unison, Unite and their ilk

Was going to say this. Unlike SP and the Darlington nurses.

DrProfessorYaffle · 28/11/2025 18:23

nicepotoftea · 28/11/2025 18:19

Are we assuming that RMW does or doesn't want non-binary people to be included in the PC of gender reassignment?

I would have thought publicly the the former, privately the latter.

RMW was involved in the Taylor case arguing the opposite and cites that involvement and case as a headline.

Examples of recent cases include

  • Taylor v Jaguar Land Rover. (Birmingham Employment Tribunal) Landmark case establishing that gender-fluid and non-binary individuals protected by the Equality Act

oldsquare.co.uk/people/robin-white/

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bringonyourwreckingball · 28/11/2025 18:21

The problem I have with this is that I think it demonstrates that the definition of gender reassignment under the Equality Act is fundamentally flawed and doesn’t actually cover anyone if analysed properly. A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex. Now we know sex here means biological sex. But humans can’t ‘reassign’ their biological sex. And how can there be ‘attributes of sex’ that are anything other than physiological if sex means biological sex?
it has never sat right with me (and I am a lawyer) that ‘attributes of sex’ means things like wearing your hair long, wearing a dress, putting on make up. Those aren’t attributes of my biological sex, they are just things that some people who share my biological sex do sometimes and equally most don’t sometimes.

DrProfessorYaffle · 28/11/2025 18:20

FragilityOfCups · 28/11/2025 17:27

I don't understand the prof thing either but I haven't had the time to grapple with the SM/BFF threads! I may do this weekend - unless some kind soul could give me a quick recap?!

In v v short, one of the lay panel members in SM case vs BFF was introduced as a Prof and had a sign in front of her during the tribunal calling her Prof. NC suggested it was off for a Prof to not have much history online and that she may have scrubbed stuff ie trying to hide bias....and then we were off! Turns out that Prof isn't a Prof, or Dr but that both have been used for her for decades in Committee notes, parliamentary minutes etc. She also claims to be a judge once.

She left school at 16 and has no genuine claim to the ways she introduces and ask to be addressed.

Preferred means of address gorn maaaad!

Anyway, she stepped down due to Fibromyalgia and the whole thing has not been formally addressed.

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nicepotoftea · 28/11/2025 18:19

ProfessorMyAmpleSheep · 28/11/2025 16:31

I think it's bread-and-butter for a barrister to argue a point of law they think has a slim or even no chance of being accepted by the judge.

What's interesting here is the suggestion a barrister has to argue in favour of a point of law with which for personal reasons they strongly want to fail.

I'm fairly sure RMW could argue either side of "NB is a protected characteristic" with a straight face, even if one side doesn't have much chance of being accepted.

Are we assuming that RMW does or doesn't want non-binary people to be included in the PC of gender reassignment?

I would have thought publicly the the former, privately the latter.

NebulousProfessorSupportPostcard · 28/11/2025 18:09

Holy shit. On P10 Haech couldn't even identify which of two nurses at a clinic 'misgendered' her so BOTH offered full apologies, and that still wasn't enough for the controlling little shite.

NebulousProfessorSupportPostcard · 28/11/2025 17:56

It's really painful to read. I keep having to take breaks becuase it is making me squirm too much imagining the poor colleagues suffering this, and through covid chaos times as well.

I should probably put paper over most of my laptop screen so I can only see a few words at a time.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 28/11/2025 17:41

These people are utterly insufferable. The papering of the window because she felt “unsafe” was absolutely ridiculous and juvenile.

HelenaWaiting · 28/11/2025 17:40

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 28/11/2025 10:16

Haech - is this pronounced 'aich' as in H from steps?

I'm pronouncing it Hake. Like the fish.

Talkinpeace · 28/11/2025 17:38

I will lay good odds that the Claimant was supported and funded by their trade union
probably one of the usual offenders - Unison, Unite and their ilk

FragilityOfCups · 28/11/2025 17:36

I wonder (in the Haech case) how many times the Judge ctrl+F'd "she" and "her" after writing the judgment, to make 100% the Judge hadn't misgendered the claimant...

Toseland · 28/11/2025 17:34

"Non-binary"
Is yet another sneaky way of damaging what the word 'woman' means:
'Woman' now means 'only feminine'.
You can't be a masculine woman anymore.
You have to conform to feminine stereotypes.

FragilityOfCups · 28/11/2025 17:27

I don't understand the prof thing either but I haven't had the time to grapple with the SM/BFF threads! I may do this weekend - unless some kind soul could give me a quick recap?!

FragilityOfCups · 28/11/2025 17:24

Just reading the judgment and it's quite breathtaking what they have demanded throughout.

JustPlainStanfreyPock · 28/11/2025 17:23

theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw · 28/11/2025 16:44

Hmm. I must have missed a professor-related joke originating on another thread. I see you are not the only one......

@theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw
On the last page of this thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5446619-sara-morrison-v-bff-thread-5
you'll find a good explanation of the reason behind the sudden award of many professorships (other academic awards and distinctions also available)
😉

Sara Morrison v BFF - thread 5 | Mumsnet

[[https://genderblog.net/sara-morrison-v-belfast-film-festival/ https://genderblog.net/sara-morrison-v-belfast-film-festival/]]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5446619-sara-morrison-v-bff-thread-5

Swamphag · 28/11/2025 17:19

I don't understaaaaaand!
Why did them put paper up on the window?!? Is it a spell? Will a misgender bounce off the paper and rebound back on the literal violencer? And if so why don't all trans and NB folx just carry round a note book to deflect the evil of an accidental "she / her / he / him / sir / madam"? Them could save theyselves a whole lot unsafeness and crack on with doing some actual work.

NebulousProfessorSupportPostcard · 28/11/2025 17:14

Hahahaha sorry I missed the post above and came is as yet another professor 😂

NebulousProfessorSupportPostcard · 28/11/2025 17:13

Was this case supported by any of the trans organisations?

It seems quite astonishingly badly thought out for an individual to change their name to something quite unusual and then take a spurious case to tribunal, knowing there was always a high risk that an anonymity request might be refused and that the undead name could forever tarnish their reputation with prospective employers?

This woman seems as daft as the NHS Fife employee/snitch who naively believed she could put the Benidorm Chat in the hands of her employer, with no possible comeback for her own shortcomings?

theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw · 28/11/2025 16:44

ProfessorMyAmpleSheep · 28/11/2025 16:41

May I ask, why are you a professor now?

You may. I am still a professor because I forgot to change my username back before making a first post on this new thread. Perhaps that's best couched as saying I was a visiting professor on another thread and I'm still visiting?

Hmm. I must have missed a professor-related joke originating on another thread. I see you are not the only one......

DrProfessorYaffle · 28/11/2025 16:43

ProfessorMyAmpleSheep · 28/11/2025 16:41

May I ask, why are you a professor now?

You may. I am still a professor because I forgot to change my username back before making a first post on this new thread. Perhaps that's best couched as saying I was a visiting professor on another thread and I'm still visiting?

I've heard there's no time limit....or that no one checks....

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ProfessorMyAmpleSheep · 28/11/2025 16:41

theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw · 28/11/2025 16:37

Well, it looks as if on this occasion respondents remained neutral, the claimant based claims on both possibilities, and everyone left it to ET to decide. So we still don't know what RMW 'thinks'.

May I ask, why are you a professor now?

May I ask, why are you a professor now?

You may. I am still a professor because I forgot to change my username back before making a first post on this new thread. Perhaps that's best couched as saying I was a visiting professor on another thread and I'm still visiting?

DrProfessorYaffle · 28/11/2025 16:40

Signalbox · 28/11/2025 16:34

Just read this determination. Imagine working with this person. What a nightmare.

Can't believe they still work in the same place with the same people.

Therse people have been really put through it.

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Signalbox · 28/11/2025 16:38

I wonder if this person will appeal. The non-binaries must be raging. 😡

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