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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Employment Tribunal finds NB does not meet PC of GR

308 replies

DrProfessorYaffle · 28/11/2025 09:33

https://www.gov.uk/employment-tribunal-decisions/h-lockwood-v-cheshire-and-wirral-nhs-foundation-trust-and-others-2401211-slash-2024-and-2407178-slash-2024

"Although the claimant has taken steps to change attributes of their sex
from female, by changing their name to a name which can be identified as of
either sex, and has changed their preferred pronouns, those are not in our
view attributes which are for the purpose of moving from one sex to the other,
they are steps in the process of moving away from the female sex to a
different gender identity, ie that of non binary. The claimant is not proposing,
nor do they intend to take any steps to reassign their sex from that of female
to male.
105. We therefore find that the claimant does not have the protected
characteristic of gender reassignment."

H Lockwood v Cheshire and Wirral NHS Foundation Trust and Others: 2401211/2024 and 2407178/2024

Employment Tribunal decision.

https://www.gov.uk/employment-tribunal-decisions/h-lockwood-v-cheshire-and-wirral-nhs-foundation-trust-and-others-2401211-slash-2024-and-2407178-slash-2024

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 01/12/2025 12:07

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 01/12/2025 11:22

Maybe there will be a time soon when NHS departments will be issued with progress pride branded bins where all this toot can be deposited.

Where there is a need for branding it should surely just say NHS

Bristol Council has that covered for you 😂

https://dailysceptic.org/2025/11/30/cash-strapped-council-spends-1500-on-lgbt-bin-carts/

I'm not quite sure the council thought this through when they decided that refuse trucks should be the venue for Pride / rainbow logos

SqueakyDinosaur · 01/12/2025 11:53

At Hammersmith tube they write quotations on a whiteboard. Today's was "No matter how kind you are, no matter how much effort you make, an ungrateful person will never be grateful ". I thought of the MN vipers when I read it!

AlexaAdventuress · 01/12/2025 11:45

Considering the way some of the rainbow badge and rainbow lanyard crew behave, they're the least 'safe' of anyone. Deeply judgemental and authoritarian. If I was looking for someone at work to tell my troubles to, the rainbow crowd would be the last on my list.

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 01/12/2025 11:22

Haulage · 01/12/2025 11:11

Around 2019 the man who’s now CEO of CDDFT, Steve Russell, became CEO of a trust I worked at and the message we got from his meetings with management was that he was very strongly in favour of all staff signing the declaration so they could wear the rainbow badge. We were told he would be noting how many badges were worn as he visited the various depts and services. Consequently we were all expected to sign these bits of paper and wear these badges lest Steve visit us and find us lacking.

From my googling it looks like he’s had a number of roles since then. I can’t say I think he’s a true believer, just a bandwagon jumper, but nor do I think he’ll do any actual good for women working at or under the care of CDDFT.

edit: I quoted because it was the tokenism comment that started my chain of thought - I completely agree!

edit #2 😳: CDDFT is the trust featured in the Darlington nurses tribunal and also in the recent damning report about breast cancer care.

Edited

Maybe there will be a time soon when NHS departments will be issued with progress pride branded bins where all this toot can be deposited.

Where there is a need for branding it should surely just say NHS

Haulage · 01/12/2025 11:11

SqueakyDinosaur · 01/12/2025 08:58

I would bet quite a lot that in that photo there are several people who would run a mile from any attempt to talk to them about sexuality or gender identity. It's utter tokenism.

Around 2019 the man who’s now CEO of CDDFT, Steve Russell, became CEO of a trust I worked at and the message we got from his meetings with management was that he was very strongly in favour of all staff signing the declaration so they could wear the rainbow badge. We were told he would be noting how many badges were worn as he visited the various depts and services. Consequently we were all expected to sign these bits of paper and wear these badges lest Steve visit us and find us lacking.

From my googling it looks like he’s had a number of roles since then. I can’t say I think he’s a true believer, just a bandwagon jumper, but nor do I think he’ll do any actual good for women working at or under the care of CDDFT.

edit: I quoted because it was the tokenism comment that started my chain of thought - I completely agree!

edit #2 😳: CDDFT is the trust featured in the Darlington nurses tribunal and also in the recent damning report about breast cancer care.

BonfireLady · 01/12/2025 10:39

ArabellaSaurus · 01/12/2025 08:07

It is quite damning by implication, isnt it? 'I'm safe, not like the other bastards'

This.

It goes beyond the workplace too. For example some teachers at my children's school use preferred pronouns in their email signatures. The school also heavily pushes a message of "kindness" to the children that it's important to use the pronouns that are requested by someone because it's about "respect".

By logical implication, any teacher who uses preferred pronouns in emails is telling children who might believe themselves to be trapped in the wrong body that they are safe. Presumably safer than the children's parents (in their own eyes).. and they are not thinking that non-affirming parents might have good reasons for not wholeheartedly celebrating their child's journey along the gender affirmation conveyor belt towards irrerversible surgery.

Obviously in the workplace there are other consequences for anyone deemed "unsafe" by implication e.g. job loss, social ostracisation.... and/or being named as a respondent in a tribunal.

CarefulN0w · 01/12/2025 09:25

The badge is a simple, visual symbol identifying that, if an NHS staff member or volunteer is wearing one, they are a person who an LGBT+ person (or their friends or family members) can talk to about issues relating to sexuality and gender identity.

I can't be the only person who activity avoids deep conversations with their colleagues about their personal lives? I don't think that males me unsafe....

An NHS HCP shouldn’t need a special badge / lanyard / certificate for people to be able to talk to them about what is worrying them. It’s what being a healthcare professional is all about.

SqueakyDinosaur · 01/12/2025 08:58

NebulousProfessorSupportPostcard · 01/12/2025 05:35

Here's a photo for the first part of the CWP "How it started...How it's going" meme.
Members of CWP executive board with NHS Rainbow Badges.
https://www.chesterstandard.co.uk/news/18260016.cheshire-wirral-partnership-nhs-trust-signs-rainbow-badge-scheme/

I would bet quite a lot that in that photo there are several people who would run a mile from any attempt to talk to them about sexuality or gender identity. It's utter tokenism.

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 01/12/2025 08:14

ArabellaSaurus · 01/12/2025 08:07

It is quite damning by implication, isnt it? 'I'm safe, not like the other bastards'

Also has an undertone of - don't talk to the doctor who doesn't wear a badge, he's not part of my echo chamber and might tell me something I don't want to hear

ArabellaSaurus · 01/12/2025 08:07

It is quite damning by implication, isnt it? 'I'm safe, not like the other bastards'

DrProfessorYaffle · 01/12/2025 08:01

BendoftheBeginning · 01/12/2025 07:47

Ha - I used to think the rainbow lanyard was worn by LGBT colleagues to show that they were happy and confident to be out in the workplace, but a few years ago I saw a chap I know on Linked In posting that he also wore one - despite being a standard issue straight white British bloke - to let ALL minorities of ANY type at work know that if they were having problems, he was a safe person to ask for help.

I must admit I’d missed exactly when the rainbow lanyard became a “I am a decent human being” symbol, like a kind of roving DEI mental health first aider.

Yes.

I don't wear such things but I am genuinely a safe person to talk to - if you're scared to go home, if you're in debt, if you're struggling with working while pregnant, if you're celebrating a religious festival and if you're planning your wedding to your same sex partner etc etc etc. I will listen, offer help, signpost to support or celebrate as appropriate. I am a decent, open minded and inclusive individual. (For some people the fact that I dont want male colleagues in the female changing room would lead to a different judgement of my character.)

I don't wear a lanyard or a badge, but I am a decent person - I also believe that there members of staff who don't wear such things are also likely to be good people and approach them with equal expectations of them being kind, professional and helpful.

Conversely, I look askance at those wearing the 'new' rainbow stuff and wonder if they're just a bit dim or genuinely would see me burnt at the stake.

Time to do away with all of it.

OP posts:
ArabellaSaurus · 01/12/2025 08:00

Yes, I'm wary around anyone wearing a ranbow lanyard, frankly. I know that some people would be delighted to hear that, and those people should not be in a caring profession.

borntobequiet · 01/12/2025 07:58

I am very wary around those who wear rainbow lanyards (I’m in HE). Happily, there are fewer of them now.

BendoftheBeginning · 01/12/2025 07:47

DrProfessorYaffle · 01/12/2025 07:34

For Haech I think this wasnt enough people and they weren't grinning inanely enough etc.

The article and premise is weird anyway, who wants to talk to/encourage talking to colleagues about their sexuality and gender identity?

The badge is a simple, visual symbol identifying that, if an NHS staff member or volunteer is wearing one, they are a person who an LGBT+ person (or their friends or family members) can talk to about issues relating to sexuality and gender identity.

I can't be the only person who activity avoids deep conversations with their colleagues about their personal lives? I don't think that males me unsafe....

Ha - I used to think the rainbow lanyard was worn by LGBT colleagues to show that they were happy and confident to be out in the workplace, but a few years ago I saw a chap I know on Linked In posting that he also wore one - despite being a standard issue straight white British bloke - to let ALL minorities of ANY type at work know that if they were having problems, he was a safe person to ask for help.

I must admit I’d missed exactly when the rainbow lanyard became a “I am a decent human being” symbol, like a kind of roving DEI mental health first aider.

DrProfessorYaffle · 01/12/2025 07:34

NebulousProfessorSupportPostcard · 01/12/2025 05:35

Here's a photo for the first part of the CWP "How it started...How it's going" meme.
Members of CWP executive board with NHS Rainbow Badges.
https://www.chesterstandard.co.uk/news/18260016.cheshire-wirral-partnership-nhs-trust-signs-rainbow-badge-scheme/

For Haech I think this wasnt enough people and they weren't grinning inanely enough etc.

The article and premise is weird anyway, who wants to talk to/encourage talking to colleagues about their sexuality and gender identity?

The badge is a simple, visual symbol identifying that, if an NHS staff member or volunteer is wearing one, they are a person who an LGBT+ person (or their friends or family members) can talk to about issues relating to sexuality and gender identity.

I can't be the only person who activity avoids deep conversations with their colleagues about their personal lives? I don't think that males me unsafe....

OP posts:
unwashedanddazed · 01/12/2025 06:26

Mochudubh · 30/11/2025 18:54

I've only read this thread, not the actual judgement but am I right in thinking this all took place in an actual hospital?

Sorry to keep harping on about the corridor interaction but I reckon from my car to my computer is about 200 yards and takes maybe 5 minutes. I'd guess I meet around 10-15 people on the way, some I know better than others, some I don't even know their name but I greet them all with a "Hiya" or "Morning" and pass on.This is in a bog standard office building with maybe 500 staff in on any given day.

Hospitals are absolutely teeming with people. On a walk of 200 yards in a hospital you will probably pass at least 50 if not 100 other people, there's just no time or space in a hospital corridor for social chit chat.

It's just such self-indulgent bollocks.

Just to add that the offensive 'hi' was said whilst the colleague was in conversation with someone else. A perfectly reasonable way to acknowledge someone passing by whilst not being rude to the person you're talking with.

I wonder what the claimant expected of the colleague? A curtsy perhaps?

NebulousProfessorSupportPostcard · 01/12/2025 05:35

Here's a photo for the first part of the CWP "How it started...How it's going" meme.
Members of CWP executive board with NHS Rainbow Badges.
https://www.chesterstandard.co.uk/news/18260016.cheshire-wirral-partnership-nhs-trust-signs-rainbow-badge-scheme/

Employment Tribunal finds NB does not meet PC of GR
IwantToRetire · 01/12/2025 01:46

Like of victimhood envy. (typo again - sorry)

Like a victimhood envy?

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 01/12/2025 00:47

IwantToRetire · 01/12/2025 00:25

Is there a new scourge in the west.

Like of victimhood envy.

ie common among those of fairly middle of the road life style, getting by, having interests and backgrounds that many share.

And yet this isn't good enough.

There is no status to be such a person.

And what with social media and other outlets, if you have not stand out talents or back story, who is going to take notice of you.

So what better way to become important, make others acknowledge you, than to aspire to become, and claim you have become one of the most discriminated groups in the UK (or even the world).

And now with the TRA narrative having full hold over most sensibilites, you can become on the most oppressed.

And be applauded for it.

And punish all those who never noticed you when you were just one among many.

A combination of real-life Four Yorkshiremen onedownmanship, a desire to appropriate victimhood to gain social currency within a social structure that purports to give your opinion more weight the more oppressed you are, and a desire to be absolved of the sense of guilt that such a social structure induces in anyone deemed to be privileged and hence an oppressor.

IwantToRetire · 01/12/2025 00:25

Is there a new scourge in the west.

Like of victimhood envy.

ie common among those of fairly middle of the road life style, getting by, having interests and backgrounds that many share.

And yet this isn't good enough.

There is no status to be such a person.

And what with social media and other outlets, if you have not stand out talents or back story, who is going to take notice of you.

So what better way to become important, make others acknowledge you, than to aspire to become, and claim you have become one of the most discriminated groups in the UK (or even the world).

And now with the TRA narrative having full hold over most sensibilites, you can become on the most oppressed.

And be applauded for it.

And punish all those who never noticed you when you were just one among many.

DrProfessorYaffle · 30/11/2025 23:23

BonfireLady · 30/11/2025 17:14

😂

I loved that show.

I'm now imagining a modern day version where Sue (Michelle Gomez) "misgenders" Caroline (Tamsin Grieg) as a running theme every episode by making the assumption that Caroline's short hair means she's a man.

Caroline eventually gets fed up, so plots with Guy (Stephen Mangan) to buy some portable blinds to put up on a glass partition that separates the two women (admittedly that's not how the set was.... but, I'm using artistic licence here).

When the blinds arrive it turns out that Sue had had exactly the same plan, mostly because she didn't want to be peered at by a man.... And by way of bad luck, Caroline hadn't spotted that the blinds came in a choice of blue or pink only. Sue had chosen pink, because obviously that's what all girls do (#sarcasm).... whereas blue had been delivered as a default to Caroline because she didn't make a choice when ordering.

The supposed "choice" of blue makes Sue even more certain that Caroline really is a man.

No, I'm not a comedy writer. Yes, I'm sure that could have been better 😂 But the actual tribunal appears to be a comedy script of its own.

Edited

And we missed it!

Sad times.

(Although I really really do feel for the colleagues dragged into this as named respondents and can't help but think there need to be some boundaries about who you can enmesh in your completely imagined victimhood tribunal drama. These people could quite understandably have been put in the postion of needing time off and adjustments and support themselves too, as a result of being named by Haech. All adding in to the paralysis of this workplace and the ever furthering of patient care from the agenda).

OP posts:
SexRealismBeliefs · 30/11/2025 22:42

TheodoreisntBeth · 30/11/2025 22:15

This person is an NHS therapist. It'd be bad enough if she were a data manager or something, she's clearly a nightmare colleague and employee.

But the utter narcissism coupled with the fact that her actual job is to help vulnerable patients to improve their mental health. She, her line manager and her clinical supervisor should all be on a PIP at the very least, all have utterly failed to put patients first.

I'd bet good money that she can't see any of it though, I'd bet good money that's she's currently off sick due to the terrible transphobia she's been subjected to by the bigoted court.

All true except she’s not suffering from trans phobia, It’ll be non binary or’enbie’ phobia. Keep up. 🤣

It a new and unique phobia that those that have it and display it don’t know its exists. No one is scared of non binary humans - as sex is binary so nothing to be scared of. But if they just go about being human and accepting truths like sex is binary they are unknowingly being phobic of NBs.

It’s similar to biologists who study species. They are unicorn 🦄 phobic purely because they accept that unicorns haven’t been found in nature.

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 30/11/2025 22:39

TheodoreisntBeth · 30/11/2025 22:15

This person is an NHS therapist. It'd be bad enough if she were a data manager or something, she's clearly a nightmare colleague and employee.

But the utter narcissism coupled with the fact that her actual job is to help vulnerable patients to improve their mental health. She, her line manager and her clinical supervisor should all be on a PIP at the very least, all have utterly failed to put patients first.

I'd bet good money that she can't see any of it though, I'd bet good money that's she's currently off sick due to the terrible transphobia she's been subjected to by the bigoted court.

Leaves me wondering if H gets preferentially assigned to provide therapy in gender questioning cases?

TheodoreisntBeth · 30/11/2025 22:15

This person is an NHS therapist. It'd be bad enough if she were a data manager or something, she's clearly a nightmare colleague and employee.

But the utter narcissism coupled with the fact that her actual job is to help vulnerable patients to improve their mental health. She, her line manager and her clinical supervisor should all be on a PIP at the very least, all have utterly failed to put patients first.

I'd bet good money that she can't see any of it though, I'd bet good money that's she's currently off sick due to the terrible transphobia she's been subjected to by the bigoted court.

SinnerBoy · 30/11/2025 21:44

ArabellaSaurus · 28/11/2025 10:56

'On 31 January 2024, Yvette Dunn failed to acknowledge the Claimant in a corridor interaction, responding with a brief “hi” and turning away'

JFC.

She failed to acknowledge her by, erm, acknowledging her. Christ in a fucking pogo stick.