Reclaim the Night - no longer about ending violence against women but all "genders"?

It was in response to Peter Sutcliffe, back in the late 70's

I very much doubt this. It began in 1977 and trans women really weren't on the radar.

If men take part in Reclaim the Night, who exactly are they trying to Reclaim it from?

Quite. It's like when men get hurt online and say things like, "if men didn't exist who would protect you" and the answer is "from what?"

Wasn't reclaim the night originally linked to the Sutcliffe murders in Bradford in the 1980's, which the police made a complete mess of solving, and women were told to stay at home if they didn't want to be his next victim?

Statistically, men are at higher risk of violence from other men they don't know outside the home, and women are at higher risk of violence from men they know inside the home.

And overall, men attack other men more often than they attack women.

The majority of murder victims are male. This has been shown by ONS data year in year out for decades. So it is fair to say that men are at higher risk of violence.

HOWEVER all of this fails to deal with the problem, which is who is doing the violence, and it's overwhelmingly men in all situations. But we talk about vawg without mentioning the men who do it at all.

Violence is a male problem. A male behaviour.

And if women were stalking the streets at night attacking and killing men, you can guarantee all women would be put under a curfew and yet oddly, men are allowed to roam free despite how many of them seem hell-bent on hurting women.

It's almost like women can't win whatever they do...

Historically, Reclaim the Night was 100% about and by women.
Women standing together to oppose male violence against women was a key part of the movement.

If men take part in Reclaim the Night, who exactly are they trying to Reclaim it from? Men as a group have never been targeted, stalked, endangered, attacked, raped, murdered at night just because of their sex.

If supportive men want to organise with other men against male violence against women, that's great. Fortunately for them, there's already an organisation for that:White Ribbon UK

'Not all men are the problem, but all men can be part of the solution.
In communities across the UK, men are stepping up to create safer spaces by taking everyday actions to prevent violence against women and girls, and it’s our mission to keep this on the rise.'

"The involvement of men is seen by many as crucial for the success of the movement. It reinforces the message that violence against women is not just a "women's issue" but a societal one that requires everyone's participation to change."

I suppose more people realising they have a stake in an issue brings more commitment to it like other causes for example climate change being everyone’s problem.

This is like someone deciding they don't want Christmas presents so they drop everyone in the family's presents off with someone else.

YOU might not mind but I mind and it's not your gift to give away.

Reclaim the night isn't just about VAWG, it's about... reclaiming the night. I was repeatedly told growing up that going out, dressed a certain way, having fun, drinking all caused rape and VAWG. Not rapists. They were almost never mentioned. Just being careful, get a cab, get walked home, dress like this, don't get too pissed. The message of women reclaiming freedom is important.

If men want to talk about violence, and they should, they can.

I might be wrong but I think they always including men. There was an outcry when it began about trans women not being included and they capitulated immediately.

The misinformation and dilution of the message about all forms of male violence is rife. I was once assured by my teenage son's girlfriend that domestic abuse is just as likely to be committed by women. A couple of hours working in my field would soon have relieved her of that notion.

If men want to organise their own protests about male violence against men, then they're perfectly welcome to do so. Who's stopping them?

Reclaim the Night marches were intended for women to protest about male violence against women and girls, and should remain so.

But aren't the waters being muddied here? Men may be more likely to be assaulted in general, but if we are talking about sexual assault of various types, women are by far the biggest victims.

Well said - and also, women are not going around at night stalking men and then attacking or killing them because they are men. The issue is male violence, and the targeting of women because, as you say Dominoodles, they are women.

I'm all for men campaigning to stop male violence against each other, but I don't see much evidence of that happening..

Well I'm not sure about that. Men attacking men is different from men attacking women, but I think that the men are indeed attacked because they are men, and are perhaps seen as a challenge or a threat - think drunken fights, men who think they're hard and go for that stranger who looked at them funny, men (and boys) who knife males in another gang, just because.

The difference is that men are not attacked because they are men. Women are attacked because they are women. It's about misogyny.

The phrase used currently in Ireland is 'domestic and gender-based violence', as if it was something that men and women experience equally.

Any insistence on it being primarily an issue of male violence against women of the XX-chromosome-y sort is seen as discriminatory against men - 'men are victims too'

Even the Rape Crisis Centres here deal with men - this pre-dates the TWAW thing, it has been going on for decades. Men are raped too, and it would be discriminatory for RCCs not to be open to them - that's the logic.

I think a lot of the male clients of RCCs here are men who were sexually abused as children, rather than as adults, and they deserve all the care and support they need- but why not from men's crisis centres campaigned for and set up by and run by men?

There have been some high-profile cases here of women who have survived serious male violence speaking out very bravely and strongly in public.
I notice even they corrected themselves at times when they nearly said men attacking women and said 'people' being attacked instead, and being very careful to refer to violence against women and men.
So even brave women with first-hand experience of serious male violence against them feel the need to avoid naming it.

Recently I've noticed a slight shift back to talking about violence specifically against women. You can't be sure what they mean by the word 'women' any more, but maybe the tide is turning a bit...

Many more men are assaulted than women but not for the same reasons or in the same ways and crucially not by women.
Which is why it is essential to name the problem - male violence against women and girls. Leaving the M off MVAWG is where it starts to go wrong.
Labelling it ambiguously "gender-based" violence as opposed to "sex-based" also obscures the problem.

And if local authorities are organising this, that also tends towards diffusing the focus because they will try to include everyone instead of focusing on women and girls. Even without factoring in gender woo, they have a poor understanding of their EA2010 duty to foster good relations between groups.

Nowadays the main purpose of many of these initiatives seems to be to force-team women + men who say they're women (and centre the men).

You might think that but I doubt it's true - at least not when it comes to serious sexual assault. In any case, reclaim the night wasn't just about assault, it was about how women are more likely to fear going out after dark than men. It had a clear mandate: reclaim the night for women to enjoy too. It's now just another "be nice to everyone " organization. Idiots.

Can you imagine the outcry if women started inserting themselves into every trans / NB awareness / celebration / remembrance day? (I mean we'd all have to give up work and hobbies for starters, there's a lot of those days / weeks / months to cover. We might have to do it in shifts) Reading out the names of women who've died at the hands of men on TDR?
But anything for women is fair game for whataboutery and ✨ inclusion ✨We just can't have anything for ourselves can we? There's a special place in hell for the women who've welcomed this erasure.

By whom? Which sex commits most of this violence? So you’re saying women and girls done deserve to have their oppression recognised cos “men get assaulted too” so we must centre them in all things?

Why not arrange 3 dates; violence against women, violence against men and violence against all genders (everyone else)?

Say you will sort the women's one and ask for volunteers to sort the other two out.

You have now accommodated everyone and it's up to them to put their money where their mouth is, if they really feel that it is important.