Interesting what happened when an Ozzy MP wanted to discuss banning the burka

As an Australian, I can tell you that Pauline Hanson is the Nigel Farage of Australian politics. She is deeply racist; said "we are in danger of being swamped by Asians", has said multiculturalism is bad, fled to the UK for a few years but came back and admitted it was because London was no longer as white as it was (yes, admitted this). She is far more toxic than Farage. She also has long attacked Australian Family Law system and complains that 'women get it too easy' (her son was accused of domestic abuse of his ex-wife). She thinks most women make false allegations.

The ONLY reason she wants the burqa banned is because those who wear it are Muslim and black. She is like Farage. Doesn't give a fuck about women, just hates black people and Muslims.

This was an attention-seeking stunt from her. She does these every so often when attention her is waning. She genuinely does not care at all about women.

Tax the Burqa might work better. That's a standard way to disincentivise personal choices that have wider social costs without actually making them illegal.

Help families make their own choice whether it's really that important to veil their female members.

Use the proceeds to fund support services for women in veiled cultures who are suffering domestic abuse or who want to be able to work and be financially independent.

(For fairness, we should probably also tax Western cultural dress that disadvantages women - high heels and stupid tiny pockets get my vote!)

But we are also talking about banning the burka - and I am becoming persuaded that would be a good idea both for Hanson's reason, security and prevention of spread of Islamism, but also because it will eventually benefit women in cities such as the one in which I reside. Denmark has done it and so have several Muslim majority countries.

So, whatever her motives (and I thought the legs was a bit silly tbh, do it properly or not at all) Hanson has raised the debate. A good outcome from a (possibly) bad act. (Not sure why it's racist to wear a burka?)

Given that Pauline Hanson wore the burqa with her legs and skirt poking out, she achieved her aim of maximum social media visibility. She’s being talked about! Her motive is only to increase her profile and that of her party. That’s it. She knows she has zero chance of even tabling, let alone passing, such a Bill in the Senate. It’s simple political grandstanding. Her action was censured by every other Senator, even those as conservative as she is.

You don't save women from people telling them what to do by telling them what to do.

Anyway the way these things work is complex. Some burka-wearing women will believe they have a free choice in the matter. Some, if banned from wearing a burka, will not be allowed (or not feel able) to leave the house.

There are plenty of socially-conditioned fashions in western culture that feminists may believe are harmful to women, but we don't go around trying to ban them!

Where I live there are currently far more men than women going round with their faces covered, and not just on cold days. And men with covered faces are much more threatening than women dressed similarly. For some reason the acceptability of this isn't a major topic of political debate however.

if I go to my bank to withdraw a large sum of cash I have to produce PHOTO ID. If I wear a burrito sorry I mean a burka or face mask can I get my money without showing my face? Just asking? I regularly withdraw large sums of cash since theiving Reeves came for my money. Any thoughts ?

It should be banned. It is not religious, but generally cultural, therefore if you are living in the UK, you should follow the norms of this society.

It is a barrier to integration, to education, to work. Why should the UK pay benefits to someone who is potentially unable to work due to their mode of dress.

Anyone under the age of 16 should also be protected/banned from any kind of religious or cultural covering.

Headscarves for adults are absolutely fine btw.

Though I note that uncovered face is hijab or abaya. When my boys were small there were families at soft play where mum would be in niqab, dad in shorts & t-shirt, but she was the one who had to wrangle the kids in the ball pit. Ridiculous.

Same.

All that may be true - I don't know who Pauline Hanson is, not being from Australia. Nevertheless, bad people with bad ideas sometimes support good causes, and in this case, whatever the motives, the banning of the burka is a good cause. Various majority Muslim countries have banned the burka, both for the reasons Hanson gives - security - and because its use encourages militant Islamism. The prevention of both of these are good causes and have the bonus of freeing women of restrictive clothing and teaching Muslim men not to make assumptions about women based on what they are wearing.
GC women have been accused of cuddling up to the right when they have fought for women's rights over TiMs.

Denmark have done it, and a few other places. There’s probably an outline of how somewhere.

@WTFAustraliaThisIsWhatHappensHereNow That's true where I live as well. As to the suggestion that unmarried schoolgirls are unlikely to wear the burka, @Sugarnspicenallthingsnaice, where I live primary school girls are in burkas - though not covering the face. I think they look so sad. And it is utterly alien to their cultures, too. (Not Aus., UK)

I think the idea may originate with a Moghul princess c. 16th century Delhi, who suggested that if men could not look at women without behaving badly they should wear blindfolds.
I love 'reverse burka'. I think we should do it.

It's not.

There are some women here who wear more than the women in the picture - they wear full leather and metal-looking masks. Also gloves and shoe coverings, of all things. As I said upthread, a daughter was fully covered in year 6. I just can’t understand why it is acceptable.

Does "Ban the Burqa" mean criminalise the women who wear it?

If not, what does it mean? How does the "ban" work in practice?

If we don’t ban this stuff what we are saying as a society is that we will be complicit in the control of men over women and we just vaguely hope your husband will stop doing it. If you ban stuff it just eventually becomes increasingly inconvenient to do it. If we ignore growing numbers of girls and women in niqabs and burkas we normalise it. We make it normal to stick younger and younger girls into niqabs. This isn’t happening to boys, just girls. We are complicit in the degradation of females. We haven’t banned it things haven’t improved have they? So how is more of the same going to help?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-15326433/KHADIJA-KHAN-burqa-choice-Muslim-women.html

Oh wow you just reminded me about the Reverse Burka!

I can't remember if I thought it up myself or read it somewhere, but the idea was that instead of covering women up apart from a strip at their eyes their eyes so men couldn't see them, you could get the same result much cheaper and faster by taking just that strip and covering up the men's eyes instead 😂

"I was referring to the women in my area who wear black robes from head to toe, with a full veil and only eyes visible (ie a burka).'

If eyes are visible, it's probably a niqab rather than a burqa, but I think where burqas are banned, niqabs are generally banned as well so it doesn't make that much difference anyway.

I’m absolutely not suggesting my experiences are the only acceptable ones, as that would be silly. What I was saying is your experience - of seeing multiple women in burqas out and about at schools and shopping centres and even young girls - sounded an extreme one for Queensland. I know there are areas where migrants tend to cluster, particularly in Brisbane, but even so.

Agree. I suggest we pass a law saying that every man whose wife/daughter wears the burka must go about in public blindfolded. He will need someone to lead him about, but probably his wife might do that. Or he can stay at home. Or he can persuade his wife/daughter that the burka is unnecessary to Islam and get his imam to preach this in his mosque.

Again - I don’t lie and I don’t appreciate being told I am, or that I must be confused. Many other women and girls do wear various forms of headscarves also, but I was referring to the women in my area who wear black robes from head to toe, with a full veil and only eyes visible (ie a burka).

FFS, I don’t agree with Pauline Hanson’s politics, and I was simply detailing what occurs in my community.

I don’t lie.

I live in an area with migrants from many countries.
There are also many Indian men in traditional long white tunics and trousers, and turbans. Several Indian women wear saris (which are quite beautiful).
Several students at the school wear the Sikh turbans, many girls wear long sleeves and long trousers under their uniforms.
There is an Islamic School less than 10 minutes drive from my home, and English as a second language college about 4 minutes away, and we have many Somali and other refugees in the surrounding area.

Are you really so ignorant as to think that your experiences are the only ones possible?

But they are. Unmarried schoolgirls, that is. Obviously their families would have to be quite extreme in their views, but I have seen as an example the girl in dd’s class.

In Afghanistan and Pakistan it is not uncommon to have young girls completely covered.

I think few have an objection to a headscarf etc, but the burka is on a completely different and - frankly - sinister level. What purpose does it serve other than to segregate women from society - and I don’t believe that is something that is to be welcomed, especially if the practice is increasing.