Biology (Bindel) vs Ideology (Webberley) on the Hodge-Cast

How is Webberley saying the EA2010 says that 'gender reassignment' means 'sex reassignment' when the SC has just said that it does not and that for purposes of the EA (and all legislation affected) sex means biological sex, which means that TiMs are biological males?

I think the point both were attempting to agree on is that as behaviours aren't exclusive to one sex they shouldn't be gendered but Bindel then walked that back by saying male violence is gendered as in typical to the male sex. I'm not suggesting it's not, in fact I agree it is.

My point is it's not the only typical behaviour that distinguishes the sexes & yet Bindel refuses to acknowledge this because to do so would be to invalidate her argument that trans people rely on stereotypes rather than are inclined towards opposite sex behaviours that legitimise their association with them.

Let's face it Webberly boils down to but they are women. They say they are women and because they arevmen saying it they deserve to be acknowledged more than those silly cis women who don't matter.

I think listening to her that she's just a very middle class woman who genuinely can not see how women and girls are still oppressed and discriminated against in this world. She reminds me of someone i know who gets fixated on someone that she thinks needs and deserves help, but she doesn't actually listen, so would for example if someone couldn't feed their family due to lack of money she'd buy them a top of the range pan set cos you need decent pans to cook but ignore the fact there's no food to cook in them. Its doing good on their own terms, it's about being completely selfish about wanting to feel charitable.

For lurkers.

Julie Bindel states that there should not be gendered behaviour expectations such as women having to have babies or women staying at home or changing your name after marriage - pretty much any other behavioural expectation that is put on women.

A previous poster is making out that means we should not document and address the male behaviours which are not expected, but do seem to spill out. Behaviours such as harassment, rape, stalking, murder.

These are not the same things.

Honestly though, if this is the woman that you are defending, explain why you are so invested in her rather than have a go at the woman on the other side of the debate.

Explain why stopping kids from growing into adults through puberty is your bag.

Explain why making men look like little girls is part of your argument.

Just explain why women should be subject to menopause in their 20s and osteoporosis is such a good thing.

It should be an easy explanation if you are so keen on it.

Word to the wise - Howseitgoin is a regular disrupter on threads and will run out of steam at some point but best not to engage TBH. Whatever you say they will contradict.

comparing the two debates is interesting. Someone has sat down with HW and worked out a strategy for each, I think.

For JB, it was ‘attack the feminist idea that men are more likely to be aggressive’
For HJ it was. ‘Refute her right to debate at all because she isn’t a medical doctor’

What they hadn’t done is say ‘and try not to sound bat shit crazy.

oh and there are several papers published on pelvic floor problems linked to women taking testosterone. You’d think that the medic would be familiar with them so she can properly inform her patients.

Can you expand on your point?

I'm saying Bindel's story can't be blindly accepted as reliable given the differences in category & outcomes. And to be fair, she's not a reliable interlocutor given the extent of oversimplifications, tropes & bad faith arguments she offered.

Are you calling her a liar?

I think it's more reminiscent of when I used to speak to people who were experiencing mental health crises.

When someone is that unwell, that divorced from rational, logical and stable thoughts and that alone in a reality only they can grasp, there's no reaching them.

It's actually wrong and exploitative for us all to be given such an opportunity to point and laugh really.

She needs to be taken home, looked after and helped.

She certainly doesn't need us to even attempt to join her in her illness.

Each sentence seemingly needs to be taken in isolation. That way, it doesn’t matter if they are contradictory….. I honestly wonder if she is actually a sociopath/psychopath, is delusional or is just money hungry.

The most interesting bit was the end when Bindel agreed with Webberley there shouldn't be any gendered typical behavioural categories but then walked it back immediately on "male violence".

No Julie, you can't have it both ways….

Of course it appears as "illogicality, conflicting and contrary nonsense"….when your initial frame of reference is flawed. It's like communicating in two different languages which is my point.

I wish there was a laughing emoji.

The only problem that we need to discuss in this thread is how absolutely utterly and completely contradictorily batshit HW is.

You can't retrospectively try to pseudo intellectualise a discourse that was so dominated by her illogicality, conflicting and contrary nonsense.

Good try though (and am sure you'll now bore us all continuing to try)

Yer what?

I doubt very much doubt Bindel insisted she was a boy or that she had gender dysphoria. More likely she identified more with boy interests & expressions which is the difference between trans & 'tomboys'.

"Femininity is imposed on women"
-Bindel

Herein lies the whole 'problem'. Incorrectly perceiving femininity as only a societal imposition & not also a biological one prevents understanding of the legitimacy of trans women as women.

I found it hilarious that she doesn’t recognise biology when it comes down to sex categories, but talked about the importance of using ‘biological terms’ when explaining what a child, adolescent and adult were.
HW is totally bonkers.

I like the mash up Julie has shared on Twitter.

Helen getting doe eyed offending about TW being called men and insisting that this could be viewed as a Hate Crime.

All feels very pre SC ruling HW! Those days are GONE

Haven't seen that one!

I had to stop watching as I couldn't cope.

I've never seen any of her 'debates with other people', only tweets of hers.
I have some catching up to do. Julie Bindel, GB news. Oh I think I saw her briefly with piers Morgan once but she was backed up by other equally bonkers guests.
Oh looks like it's starting now. But no sound??