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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sara Morrison v BFF thread 4

1000 replies

MarieDeGournay · 17/11/2025 14:41

continuation

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Easytoconfuse · 18/11/2025 12:16

ProfLargofesse · 18/11/2025 09:16

I've been developing a deeper understanding of GenAI over the last year or so and it is clear that it is so woven into the lives of the younger generation that they are being significantly de-skilled on lots of levels and don't fully appreciate that text based AI is a language learning model that seeks patterns, and in that process will seek to fill in gaps by using those patterns rather than actual information.

I find it more useful to think of it in those terms rather than the more common idea of it hallucinating because it is important to see it as a pattern-seeking machine looking for statistical probabilities rather than having any actual intelligence. Hallucinating tends to suggest it's just a blip which is unexplainable rather than it being very explainable.

It is a very useful tool when you understand that. As a search engine it can gather information and sources in a useful way and much more quickly than google which favours advertising payments in how it presents the results of your searchers but AI also learns from your use what you are seeking and will find a pattern in that behaviour too which it will then apply to any searching.

And so you always need to ask it to provide links to sources and go to those sources yourself. If the summary stands up in the face of that then it might be useful. As with the law itself and evidenced in these threads everything is open to interpretation, even most facts, so applying your own intelligence to any information gathering is always crucial.

I'm always against blanket rejection of any tool rather than the application of critical thinking to how it is being used. Adding a working understanding of the tool you are using to further develop research skills rather than de-skill is much more productive. Know the tool you are using and setting out how you are using it, and how you have applied your own critical assessment to the offering rather than do knee-jerk rejection is more useful. It is here to stay and the better we understand its benefits and failings and apply our brains to how we use it the better we will be at using it.

Thanks. Duly shared with student daughter! I've always done the three sources rule but the learning part is scary because its telling you what it thinks you want to hear, not what you need to know

ProfessorMyrtleLion · 18/11/2025 12:16

From NW

Except Alfred Hitchcock did not direct gaslight…


From seacoastonline.com

However the play Gas Light and subsequents films Gaslight is where the phrase did come from:


From bbc.co.uk

Apparently the evil man would turn down the gas lights to make his wife think something spooky was going on.

[we are back]
J I said whilst issues are agreed between the parties ultimately it was for the tribunal to decide
SD we don’t accept it’s pleaded as “less favourable treatment”
NC didn’t hear

J I said from my notes the issues don’t need to be slavishly stuck to
SD you referenced, Knox, so you did
J I did

NC I understood no amendment was nec to plead the point I wished to pursue - if we wish to put forward the contention that 3 July was an act of detriment then we should be able to do so. If we are now not we must put forward an amendment application

SD the only thing I agreed was not needed was an amendment to the issues, not the pleas and there is a distinction between the two
[more legal discussion - SD suggests it is dealt with in closing. J and NC agrees.]
[MD resumes]

NC takes MD to her Witness Statement (WS) where she says the BFF staff page was moved on 17 Sep - and SM’s WS which shows the staff webpage at BFF was taken down on or by 31 July 2023
MD agrees she was wrong

NC if that was taken down in planning in Sep it’s less plausible it was because of SM - but we say this was part of an airbrushing exercise, taking SM out of BFF
MD I’m sorry what’s your question
NC [repeats q] -

BBC Radio 4 - Drama on 4 - Where does the term 'gaslighting' come from?

Tracing the term's origins and its influence on our popular culture.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/4xpypk2x33MfQxp1xrBWkFG/where-does-the-term-gaslighting-come-from

ProfessorMyrtleLion · 18/11/2025 12:14

WomanInnaWoods · 18/11/2025 11:45

MD “we getting tortured by all sorts of headcases… stopped by people in the street and harassed online… so I protected my staff"

Assuming Nick meant 'contacted' instead of 'tortured', I wonder which flavour of "headcases" and "harassers" MD was referring to when she said this.

Edited

Women.

ProfessorBettyBooper · 18/11/2025 12:13

NW currently discussing Gaslight, so guessing they're not back in yet...

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 18/11/2025 12:13

ProfessorIDareSay · 18/11/2025 11:40

Yes me too, all back now thank goodness.

Seems like someone at Cloudfare needed to charge their phone and accidentally pulled out the plug for the server. Seems fixed now

ProfessorFanOfBen · 18/11/2025 12:13

See https://www.cloudflarestatus.com/ for updates. Cloudflare sits in front of both Twitter and MN, ironically, to guard them from problems of various kinds.

Madcats · 18/11/2025 12:12

ProfessorBettyBooper · 18/11/2025 12:09

Why does mumsnet and X keep going down and (eg) BBC does not?

It seems to be something to do with Cloudfare; glad it wasn't just me!

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 18/11/2025 12:12

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 18/11/2025 12:11

Cloudflare (who host X and MN in some way that someone cleverer than me will explain) keeps going down.

Cross post w @ProfessorMyrtleLion !

ickky · 18/11/2025 12:11

@ProfessorBettyBooper Cloudflare issues.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 18/11/2025 12:11

ProfessorBettyBooper · 18/11/2025 12:09

Why does mumsnet and X keep going down and (eg) BBC does not?

Cloudflare (who host X and MN in some way that someone cleverer than me will explain) keeps going down.

ProfessorMyrtleLion · 18/11/2025 12:11

Cloudflare which runs MN and Twitter is having serious issues.

I'll carry on when I can, but please step in if you see I haven't pasted.

ProfMummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking · 18/11/2025 12:10

We're about 30 mins on from when they were meant to come back, do we reckon they're still arguing the toss over 3rd July subject matter?

ProfessorBettyBooper · 18/11/2025 12:09

Why does mumsnet and X keep going down and (eg) BBC does not?

Lunde · 18/11/2025 11:56

Does anyone else think that MD has received some sort of coaching overnight on what to say? I could be why she was so keen to get home yesterday rather than wait another hour and finish.

Some of the phrases she has used this morning sound like media/interview coaching-speak - MD saying "I do not accept the premise of the question" in an attempt not to answer jumped out at me.

Largesso · 18/11/2025 11:52

I think we are all aware of certain things from MD’s testimony.

Having been in charge of BFF for decades she has got used to having things her own way.

She is used to manipulating information to the board so that she gets her own way.

In essence she is used to using some aspects of coercive control within her position of professional authority and that she seems to be able to do that both up and down the hierarchy. (Love-bombing is evident here too).

SM has taken some of that control away and the process of ET is exposing how MD has reacted to that. I doubt her working behaviour has ever attracted scrutiny of any shape or form before.

She can’t contain her outrage that a small arts organisation, and her in particular, isn’t somehow exempt from employment law and fair practice.

She genuinely believes that having manipulated the situation to try and subvert legal process to pursue the end MC desired that she is not lying in response to NC because to her these manipulations are entirely within her authority as she sees it, further enhanced by MCs own manipulations of her.

The panel will have to perform significant gymnastics if they want to view her as a credible witness.

NC and CE are such a talent at uncovering such dastardly and underhand behaviour.

MarieDeGournay · 18/11/2025 11:51

Does knowing that qualify me to be CEO of BFF??
No thanks!😬

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NebulousProfessorSupportPostcard · 18/11/2025 11:50

ProfessorBettyBooper · 18/11/2025 11:41

The thing is, the witnesses so far and the complaints have made such a big deal of how 'inappropriate' and 'unacceptable' SM's views are (bigot, fascist, far right, Nazi, etc etc), that to then argue that they didn't want rid of her makes no sense.

If you truly thought that someone in your organisation held such horrendous views, of course you'd want rid.

It only makes sense if you don't really have 'love' for everyone, and probably agree with her but, hey ho, someone will have to take a hit to save appease the concerned Board.

MarieDeGournay · 18/11/2025 11:50

'Gaslight' was George Cukor, not Hitchcock.

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NebulousProfessorSupportPostcard · 18/11/2025 11:48

Apols for silly post above that was supposed to be a reply last night when more appropriate!

I quite like that NW hadn't heard of Gaslight! And admitted it. 😂

WomanInnaWoods · 18/11/2025 11:45

MD “we getting tortured by all sorts of headcases… stopped by people in the street and harassed online… so I protected my staff"

Assuming Nick meant 'contacted' instead of 'tortured', I wonder which flavour of "headcases" and "harassers" MD was referring to when she said this.

NebulousProfessorSupportPostcard · 18/11/2025 11:42

I wished my friend a happy birthday on Oracle (ITV text pages) in about 1983 which probably makes me precociously Gifted & Talented, and should get me a backdated Equity Card for appearing on telly?

LoveIceland · 18/11/2025 11:41

ProfessorMyrtleLion · 18/11/2025 11:40

From NW

There has been a comment from a gentleman sitting in the same row as me surprised that the Director of a Film Festival was only vaguely aware of the term gaslighting, given the term derives from the Alfred Hitchcock movie "Gaslight" - something...

... I must admit I was wholly unaware of.

Really Nick?! 😳

ProfessorBettyBooper · 18/11/2025 11:41

The thing is, the witnesses so far and the complaints have made such a big deal of how 'inappropriate' and 'unacceptable' SM's views are (bigot, fascist, far right, Nazi, etc etc), that to then argue that they didn't want rid of her makes no sense.

If you truly thought that someone in your organisation held such horrendous views, of course you'd want rid.

ProfessorIDareSay · 18/11/2025 11:40

LoveIceland · 18/11/2025 11:39

Mumsnet and X went down for me then! Didn’t know what to do with myself. Conspiracy 🤔

Yes me too, all back now thank goodness.

MarieDeGournay · 18/11/2025 11:40

ProfessorVegemiteandhoneyontoast · 18/11/2025 11:38

Ahem...

..just testing. You passed.😁

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