It was all a fever dream guys, don't know what you are all on about...<whistles and kicks floor>

OMG that was amazing!

Ben Leo did a phenomenal job here. His pauses and his calmness (in contrast to his Webberley interview).... followed by "you are off your rocker. You are mad" were spot on.

He doesn't need an in depth knowledge of the subject here to expose how utterly bonkers it sounds, just common sense.

“I will do anything for you to be happy” means ice cream for every meal until your child develops scurvy.

Being a parent means knowing that children haven’t a clue about the long term effects of their ever changing desires. And your job as a parent is to be the boundary until they learn these things for themselves.

Whittle hasn’t the faintest clue. Idiot, as well as evil.

I must be a crap mother. I never made that promise to my child. I don’t tend to make empty promises that I know I cannot keep.

Recent exchange on X:

Whittle: 'Some people, all too quickly, forget the promise they made when their baby was born “I will do anything for you to be happy” - a commitment to letting a child grow, boundaries that do not destroy their imagination, & make no expectations of them beyond becoming a good citizen'

Other Xer:( No one is telling children that they are not valued- growing up is confusing for many children & it’s the role of parents to help & support their children them And some that support may involve saying “no”)

Whittle: 'I have no problem with that, but good parenting also includes recognising a young person’s developing autonomy. How do we support their mental as well as physical wellbeing? By being open to many possibilities, with our hands outstretched. & ready to catch them when they fall'

I mean these are platitudes. But bear in mind the discussion in question is whether a two year old child shoudl be affirmed when he says he's a girl.

“I will do anything for you to be happy”

Is a strangely controlling and pointless phrase. One can't make one's child happy. One can ensure their safety, do one's best, nurture, coach, teach, care for them.

'By being open to many possibilities'

Yes. But changing sex is not a possibility.

Whittle is a nasty evil piece of work. I don’t wish ill on many people, but I fully make an exception for her.

I would never celebrate anyone else's medical problems, not even if it was someone trans who was suffering from a medical problem that sex realists had warned them about, and not even if that trans person had insulted, threatened and accused of lying the very people who warned them. Partly because I am not a nasty and cruel person, partly because the next stage of all this - I fear - is a bunch of seriously damaged people who were warned not to self-harm getting massive payouts from our NHS to compensate them for the damage done.

BUT -

(1) It seems to me almost certain that PBs and wrong sex hormones (let alone surgeries) do all sorts of damage. How much brain damage we do not know, nor do we know for sure whether it can bring on dementia. In a world where I am practically certain the harms are massive (albeit without the very good evidence I would like to see) then having the harms shown or better still proven is a good thing. Either we go on harming new trans people every single day indefinitely, or we see harms publicized and those harms eventually lead to regulation and new harms to new transitioners stopping. One could make a strong argument that every example of harm is good because it causes the end to be nearer.

(2) I believe that the wider societal harms of gender ideology are massive, and (to some extent) the more medical harm is shown to be done to trans people, the more likely it is that the wider societal harms of gender ideology are reduced as a side effect of future reductions in levels of medicalization.

Whittle has shared Benjamin Butterworth's post, with his clip of the argument on GB News.

Text: 'Trans people have a right to healthcare and support and to be recognised for who they are inside. Refusing to listen to young people and forcing them to deny what they know of themselves is dangerous and immoral.'

A reminder that the child they are discussing in the clip is two years old.

https://x.com/benjaminbutter/status/1990793654269821259

I think dementia could very well be an issue. However, Whittle is at the age where that dementia could be caused by many things.

The connection with early onset dementia with women no longer having ovary function is something the medical world should be investigating, and whether exogenous estrogen is enough to protect them from that condition.

The diversion onto dementia was somewhat my fault. Someone had raised it as a possible reason why Whittle was conveniently forgetting everything that she and every other TRA has previously said about medical intervention for young gender confused kids. As @Helleofabore points out, it is an issue that should be being tackled, though my post did kind of derail things.

But more critically, and back to the OP, are we going to let these snakes just slink off stage and pretend they didn’t wreck the damage they wrecked?

'Rubbing hands'

That's a gross and offensive characterisation.

Considering the bulk of the patients who if removing ovaries very young due to testosterone use without replacing the estrogen levels will still be not be at the age of being tested for outcomes for dementia, should we then dismiss the red flags being raised around this issue.

And will it even be studied in the UK? I know someone who has all the symptoms that women who had Lupron in the past described, she underwent medical treatment twenty years ago and from my understanding Lupron style drugs would have been used. Her doctors have no idea what may have caused her life shortening medical issues and they are not interested in why, they are too busy as NHS specialists trying to keep her well enough to function for the foreseeable future. If no one connects the issues with past treatments from decades ago now unless that treatment is of particular interest to a research team, will it even become something they study in the decades to come?

In the meantime, are we to ignore the chance of risk of drugs being used for the purpose of elective extreme body modifications?

But none of the studies posted by PPs point to a "real life dementia scenario" though. That's what I was pointing out. People seemed to want to see one, rather than read what was actually written.

Anyway, we have other things to deal with, but just because someone doesn't agree with something someone else has written on a GC thread, doesn't mean they are a scold or a sock puppet, which seemed to be the accusation.

Who is rubbing hands? I suppose you could point to MaryCate Delvey who did a spoof video, but to me it just pointed out the horror of a real life dementia scenario.

And I was posting in good faith. Linking to nonsense "studies" doesn't get us anywhere. They have nonsense science, we need good science.

And it seems quite mean to be rubbing hands over the idea that trans people may suffer more from dementia.

I like that we are not all of a hive mind, despite a common belief that GI is mad and bad, so I don’t mind a few “buts” so long as they are posted in good faith.

PBs can directly impact fertility in boys. They can cause atrophy and if I remember correctly calcification in the testes.

Puberty Blocker and Aging Impact on Testicular Cell States and Function

Varshini Murugesh, Megan Ritting, Salem Salem, Syed Mohammed Musheer Aalam, Joaquin Garcia, Asma J Chattha, Yulian Zhao, David JHF Knapp, Guruprasad Kalthur, Candace F Granberg, Nagarajan Kannan

March 27, 2024.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.03.23.586441v1.full

Abstract

Spermatogonial stem cell (SSC) acquisition of meiotogenetic state during puberty to produce genetically diverse gametes is blocked by drugs collectively referred as ‘puberty blocker’ (PB). Investigating the impact of PB on juvenile SSC state and function is challenging due to limited tissue access and clinical data. Herein, we report largest clinically annotated juvenile testicular biorepository with all children with gender dysphoria on chronic PB treatment highlighting shift in pediatric patient demography in US. At the tissue level, we report mild-to-severe sex gland atrophy in PB treated children. We developed most extensive integrated single-cell RNA dataset to date (>100K single cells; 25 patients), merging both public and novel (52 month PB-treated) datasets, alongside innovative computational approach tailed for germ cells and evaluated the impact of PB and aging on SSC. We report novel constitutional ranges for each testicular cell type across the entire age spectrum, distinct effects of treatments on prepubertal vs adult SSC, presence of spermatogenic epithelial cells exhibiting post-meiotic-state, irrespective of age, puberty status, or PB treatment. Further, we defined distinct effects of PB and aging on testicular cell lineage composition, and SSC meiotogenetic state and function. Using single cell data from prepubertal and young adult, we were able to accurately predict sexual maturity based both on overall cell type proportions, as well as on gene expression patterns within each major cell type. Applying these models to a PB-treated patient that they appeared pre-pubertal across the entire tissue. This combined with the noted gland atrophy and abnormalities from the histology data raise a potential concern regarding the complete ’reversibility’ and reproductive fitness of SSC. The biorepository, data, and research approach presented in this study provide unique opportunity to explore the impact of PB on testicular reproductive health.

And an article

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13276501/Mayo-Clinic-puberty-blockers-trans-kids-fertility-cancer-medicine.html

Whilst they may not directly cause infertility in all cases, a boy who has been on puberty blockers from the "recommended (by WPATH) stage will as an adult have a pre-pubertal penis.

Hence the surgical difficulties when these boys reach adulthood and consider "vaginoplasty" - there isn't enough material to work with.

Exactly. When you look at the enormous changes that happen to a teenage brain through puberty and into their 20s, interfering with that is going to have serious consequences on the brain development. It’s quite horrific that the NHS are going to inflict what is effectively brain damage on a set of children in the name of ‘research’.

Exactly. Having seen the impact on DD of a minor hormone imbalance, I would very much expect there would be serious consequences of taking these medications.

And then theres the question about all those who were put on puberty blockers at tanner stages 1&2 who haven't gone through puberty or the normal brain development that is triggered by pubert. They have a lower IQ by about 10 points and we have no idea about the long term harm to their cognitive function over the decades to come

I am not saying "don't take painkillers" or "don't go to the doctor", but I was always brought up to believe that in an ideal world we'd all avoid all medication, because of the risk of side-effects.

It seems to me bloomin' obvious that the risks of changing hormone levels must be absolutely massive, and the possibility of testosterone and oestrogen added artificially to opposite sex bodies only masculizing or feminizing but doing nothing else is extremely unlikely.

Yes, I’ve noticed that an increasing number of times recently.

Has anyone else noticed that the phrase “I’m as GC as they come” is always followed by a “but…”?

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3702015/

'The findings from the MCSO and the Danish study can be combined to support an overall causal hypothesis. Bilateral oophorectomy causes an abrupt estrogen deficiency that may be the initial step in a chain of causality leading to increased risk of cognitive impairment or dementia.'

I remember that there had been a review done about very early onset dementia with women who have their ovaries removed or cease working while they are very young. In other words, when their ovaries ceased to produce hormones. However, I have not been able to find a link to this or where I heard it.

In my recollection it was something Carole Hooven said in an interview but it was a few years ago. I could be wrong that it was her though.