Man who transitioned to female sues expert for discrimination after being told breastfeeding was delusional

I do have a bit of hope. I think that most experts would advocate caution given there isn’t really much research just individual case studies. I suspect there will be a we can’t say this is safe at this stage but we don’t like the way she said it type result.

Well, it's Australia, innit? I fear the outcome of this.

I think it’ll take a while. Essentially they overturned the decision of the previous court that “the what” that was attempting to be fed to the baby had no relevance. It’ll now take time to gather and present new evidence. It’ll probably be months before theres a proper update.

https://www.hrla.org.au/tribunal-win-for-jasmine-sussex-in-free-speech-defence

Any news on this one? The news report last week said the “chest feeder” had to produce information to the court. Where can we find out if that happened?

Define “milk”.

Does the secretion produced by chemical stimulation have the same qualities and nutritional value, ie proportion of fats, proteins , sugars etc as breast milk?

Is the secretion produced by chemical stimulation nutritionally optimised to be able to sustain a child’s physical development and growth, including brain development, from new born to (say) a year without the need for supplemental formula feeding, additional liquid or other food?

Does the secretion produced by chemical stimulation have the ability that breast milk has to actually change its composition during feeding according to the child’s needs?

Does the secretion produced by chemical stimulation have the ability to offer immunity against certain illnesses and infections until the child has matured enough to develop its own immune system?

If the answer to any or all these questions is no then it is clear that whatever is being squeezed out of those manly nipples is not human breast milk.

The breastfeeding professional will have also had in mind the negative impact on the milk supply from the actual woman's actual lactating breasts, which would be inhibited if alternative 'milk' were supplied and suckling at her own nipples to initiate/establish that supply were interferred with or obscured by the LARPing man. (Just as it is impacted when formula top-ups are used).

It does seem to have come from a place of compassion by HCPs - I'm a midwife and have come across female partners of pregnant women who asked about inducing lactation. This over 15 years ago though and at that point it wasn't even something we had any training on and I think I directed her to the GP. I haven't practised clinically for over 6 years now.

Terms such as chest-feeding, aimed to be inclusive of trans-identifying women who don't want to think about the fact they have/had breasts, but now actually want to experience an exclusively female pursuit e.g. breastfeeding - I find the cognitive dissonance they surely must experience when going through the process of using their female body to get pregnant, gestate and birth a baby really hard to get my head around.

I want to be compassionate and provide individualised care to everyone, so have been flexible around adding in 'birthing person' for example, but never erasing 'mother' or 'pregnant woman'.

I'd like to see a list of women's reasons for breastfeeding. I bet it would go something like

• feed the baby
• better for the baby than formula
• bond with the baby
• cheaper than formula (I'm not sure about this given the amount I ate )
• easier than sterilising bottles, and carrying formula when you go out

I'll lay 100 quid on curiosity, fun and sexual gratification appearing nowhere in the list, even if you asked 10,000 women.

I missed this earlier:

As to the question of why they would want to, it seems reasonable to believe that cis men want to lactate for the same reasons as anyone else. Which is to say, usually to feed and bond with their baby and to a lesser extent for curiosity, fun, or sexual gratification.”

Wtaf!! Which women, pregnant or not, decide to induce lactation for curiosity, fun or sexual gratification????

The ‘substantial miscarriage of justice’ comment sounds very promising and I hope the judge reads about that Irish situation and understands what’s going on here.

I agree, and its good that an Australian judge has found fault with the original verdict: And found that verdict overall unsafe.

'As part of her defence, Jasmine sought details about the treatment used, the practitioners involved and the composition of the substance produced - critical information given the lack of evidence supporting its safety or nutritional adequacy.
QCAT initially ruled these medical facts irrelevant. The Appeal Tribunal has now overturned that decision, finding errors of law constituting a “substantial miscarriage of justice” and affirming that the information is relevant to whether Jasmine expressed her concerns reasonably, in good faith and in the public interest.'

Substantial miscarriage of justice sounds pretty strong wording (admittedly IANAL nor am I in Australia).

Its sad to have this promising news followed by leave to appeal Tickle vs Giggle not being allowed - from sounds of thing because the law is so bad that Sal's case could not succeed if arguing law interpretted incorrectly. (Which in UK seems to be the only basis for appeals).

I agree - it's useful in the context of this case
Lactation support conference in Ireland - the quiet part out loud | Mumsnet
where an invited speaker was a man who promotes 'male lactation' and is actually on record as having said
“As to the question of why they would want to, it seems reasonable to believe that cis men want to lactate for the same reasons as anyone else. Which is to say, usually to feed and bond with their baby and to a lesser extent for curiosity, fun, or sexual gratification.”

It's useful to have details of the composition of what babies are ingesting when men are allowed to indulge this fantasy of 'chestfeeding'.

Good news! Thanks for the update. Let’s hope this starts a worldwide reversal of this ghastly practice.

As a PP said - if this was completely safe and just about bonding (and it improved outcomes/breast feeding rates etc) then all fathers and grandfathers would be encouraged to do it.

Given that a TRA posted recently that it was about fun and sexual gratification for the male adult, a good deal of sunlight would help this situation i think 🤮

I wonder which other liquids the court would approve for consumption by babies claiming that their composition is not relevant? What a bizarre decision.

I don’t see how the composition of what was being fed to the baby was initially found unimportant. I breastfed all my dc and there is a lengthy list of stuff you shouldn’t take, not as it’s been proven harmful but because we err on the side of caution where babies are concerned. Rightly so imo the idea that all safeguards are jettisoned as soon as “trans rights” are involved is ludicrous.

Because if you believe in gender identity theory, no person with man gender identity could ever countenance doing something as emasculating and deeply un-manly as feeding a baby! They just wouldn't, ever, ok?

This whole sorry saga leaves me utterly perplexed. How on Earth could anyone NOT think that the chemical composition of the secretions being fed to the baby was relevant?

I can scarcely believe this thread isn't a huge, sick wind-up.

I mean, really? Really? Something as crazy as this really, truly, actually is happening? Is the nurse OK for legal costs? I can't afford to garden, but for her I would find a way to manage a couple of packets of seeds.

Selective in their postings @AstonScrapingsNameChange as ever

Iswym.

And evenif it's not harmful but of little nutritional value it would be difficult to argue how giving it to babies just so men can LARP is in the babies best interests.

Still radio silence from the usual suspects on this thread, I note 👋

Female is a biological indicator. A male person cannot become female.

This appeal has just found that what is in the substance being fed to the baby is important. The original case said it was not. So now the 'what is it?' question will be answered in a court of law.
As there are other lactation experts beyond Australia who have been penalised for expressing concern about the impact on children I assume that more information about what is being secreted and fed to babies will help.

Is it harmful? Is there any nutritional value? If it's harmful it will be hard to argue it should ever happen.

Not sure what you mean?

Details about the composition of the substance fed to the baby via nipples will help other cases?

Intriguing update. From Facebook post by Rachel Wong and Womens's
Forum Australia.

🚨 A critical win for Jasmine Sussex, biological reality and child safeguarding.

The former Australian Breastfeeding Association counsellor was taken to QCAT for alleged vilification after raising concerns about a trans-identifying male using drugs and hormones to induce lactation and feed the resulting substance to a newborn baby.

As part of her defence, Jasmine sought details about the treatment used, the practitioners involved and the composition of the substance produced - critical information given the lack of evidence supporting its safety or nutritional adequacy.

QCAT initially ruled these medical facts irrelevant. The Appeal Tribunal has now overturned that decision, finding errors of law constituting a “substantial miscarriage of justice” and affirming that the information is relevant to whether Jasmine expressed her concerns reasonably, in good faith and in the public interest.

The substantive case is yet to be decided. But this is a significant step towards ensuring that legitimate questions about experimental practices involving vulnerable babies cannot simply be dismissed as “vilification”.

🗞️ Read more in The Australian: archive.md/kckEN

#IStandWithJasmineSussex #Auspol #QLDpol

🤮

And for that matter, why aren't we inducing lactation in male cows for us all to drink? If the milk is exactly the same, the added drugs no biggie, then why not pour some of that male cow juice on our cereal? I'm sure the Dairy industry would be on board with doubling their profits... Barf.

Yep, what better use of paternity leave than to actually help with essential child rearing tasks. Much better than the example from a recent thread where the dad seems to be spending his paternity leave gaming and not even prepared to hold his baby to allow the mum to have a shower.