Anyone wanting to support greens but really stuck on their trans beliefs and policies?

The nub of it is that this position (as in bold above) is a pretty liberal one and therefore doesn't sit well with the black and white authoritarianism thar sits within the Green mindset, which needs to command agreement rather than accept plurality.

You might be right, but it's ironic that in practice the Green Party want the green power, but not the pylons that carry it through a Green Party constituency, and they want to welcome asylum seekers, but just as long as they are accommodated somewhere far away. They seem to be very much in the mould of the Lib Dems.

Agreed.

No. Their gender woo stance is enough to not support them ofc, however they are shit in many ways. They have zero economic sense - kind of needed in a government position of power. All anyone needs to do is look at what the Greens did to Brighton. Terrible. Under no circumstances would I ever vote for them.

They have always been mad.
And I say that from having been to some of their meetings in the early 90s.

Fundamentally a lot of the green party members who are actually most focused on environmental matters probably just haven't thought too deeply about the real implications of "transwomen are women".

The issues are that (1) effective implementation of genuinely useful Green policies on environmental issues requires a general mindset of authoritarianism and top-down decision-making because all the things that need to happen to save the planet are less convenient and less luxurious on an individual level, and if people are free from that authoritarianism their free choices will not tend to be environmentally beneficial. (2) therefore the Greens have been an easy target for ideallogues to capture from the top and get trans ideology embedded and accepted into the whole narative (3) part of that ideology is to embed that any kind of "but" any kind of compromise or concession to other vulnerable groups is absolutely identical to hating transwomen and wanting them to die. The idea that one could simultaneously be supportive of trans people's rights to live free and safe without discrimination in almost all contexts but that there nevertheless exist some circumstances where single-sex provision is appropriate and it is impossible to have a single sex space for women if any man can choose to gain admittance is incompatible with their ideology. The nub of it is that this position (as in bold above) is a pretty liberal one and therefore doesn't sit well with the black and white authoritarianism thar sits within the Green mindset, which needs to command agreement rather than accept plurality.

The "if any man can gain admittance" bit is crucial and comes from a different bit of dogma than TWAW - every barrier and condition that could be envisioned for defining whether a person is trans has been rejected, and rightly so. It would be wrong for any kind of condition for surgery or hormone treatment or dress or anything else to be a condition that one must meet in order to be able to embrace a trans identity if that is your wish - and that is right and good. However that means that any person of any ethical status and any motive can therefore present themselves as trans whenever they wish, which means that therefore it cannot be the case that a trans identity gives you any additional rights or privileges that one would not have if one was not trans. To argue against that one would have to either (a) have a rock solid faith that 100% of human beings are too noble and pure and good hearted to ever attempt to gain additional rights or privileges that they aren't entitled to, or (b) just not be very bright.

I'm not clear which part of your point you think I twisted.

I simply pointed out that the gender ideology espoused by the Green Party is also right wing.

I agreed with you that people have different criteria for voting, and different priorities.

'hysteria'

Always goes down well on the FWR board.

A family of votes were lost here. We try to live in greener ways (and will continue to do so) but a party that is so careless of harm done to half the population can't have our votes!

The safety and well-being of women is important to men women and children.

The phrase 'Trans hysteria' is the is the only drama I see on the thread. Hysteria is a misogynistic word for dismissing women's concerns.

Only someone completely insulated by privilege or someone not looking at what is happening to safeguarding could fail to be concerned about the impact of gender ideology. Many of us have neither the privilege nor ignorance to ignore it.

It's interesting how far down the list 'climate protection' actually is 😂 They might as well just come out and say 'We believe in things our privileged buddies will applaud us for. We're doing alright Jack, so fuck those women needing single sex refuges, my brother likes wearing a skirt on a Friday night and he's a jolly good chap, also we just can't get a cleaner these days and Mummy has dementia and care is eating into our inheritance so more cheap labour, yes please!'

Having worked with a number of these people (you'll find clusters in Brighton, Bristol, North London and university cities) I can assure you that nothing is more important to them than showing they are 'the right sort of person' and 'part of the cool club'. They're fascinating in a terrible way.

@nicepotofteaYou deliberately twisted my point. I think the trans hysteria is largely on Mumsnet, and in the far right parties.

I’m really torn on this and in all likelihood will probably abstain in the next general election. Politics is a farce.

I wouldn't use the term 'hysteria', but I think the Green Party's opposition to women's rights is right wing.

I agree that you have to weigh up all policies and that often the only option is to choose the least bad thing, but the Green Party don't even seem to be that strong on Green policies. All they have to offer is the omnicause and NIMBYism.

I’m undecided who I’ll vote for and I’m probably nearer gender critical than anything else, but I can’t be bothered with the right wing hysteria about trans people, especially now the law has changed. The issue wouldn’t stop me voting for anyone.

Trying to add image…

Saw this on another thread…Two political parties with no experience governing and full of uniformed ideologues. The UK is going to be such a huge mess.

Rising societal and racial divisions and not enough jobs or money to soothe the electorate. No strong sense of what ‘Britishness’ is any more accelerated by the privatisation and erosion of British institutions that were/are the subtle glue holding a heterogeneous society together.

It’s all gone downhill so quickly. The financial crash in 2008, austerity years, Brexit in 2016, topped off by Covid in 2020-2022 with the clown King PM and the will-no-one-think-about-the-cheese clown queen PM. Labour having a whacking great majority but making so many own goals and dreading next week’s budget. No one seems able to halt the political entrenchment of crazy big tech multi billionaires foisting technology that accelerates job losses and work intensification.

All feels hopeless atm. I need to give my head a shake and try to be more positive.

They have really lost their way, definitely never voting for them

It's Their position on women that is the problem

I think their carbon obsession will do me more personal harm than their trans position tbh

No!

Imagine being the refuge of these men who put so much energy, time and venom into their misogyny.

I formally complained the Labour Party about LRM behaviour with Ben Bradshaw when Miriam Cates spoke. Don't think they bothered to reply.

Me. That and their alliance with the SNP.

Reminds me of when Mridul Wadhwa left the SNP in high dudgeon after the Forensic Medical Examiners Bill vote in order to defect to the Scottish Greens, feeling that the SNP weren't quite women hating enough for him.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/14992504/mridul-wadhwa-greens-election-bid/

It doesn't say much for the Green party that the worst of other parties naturally gravitate to them.

And now they've for that aggressively misogynistic twerp LRM joining them!

For anyone who hasn't seen it -

https://www.rapecrisisscotland.org.uk/resources/ERCC-Review-Report-FINAL1-.pdf

Thank you for posting this. It's unbelievable. I am gobsmacked. Definitely won't be voting for them.