Trans Liberation Group

Ah I see Howse has found a new thread to piss all over and derail in his usual fashion

anyway, the trans liberation front and an MP idiotic enough to support them is just the latest in a long line of reality denying fuckwittery

Cis people get their preference, trans people don't. That's discrimination based on gender.

I'm not sure what a Cis person is (somebody who really identifies with stereotypes like a trad wife?), but no woman has a right to choose to use the men's toilet, even if the queue for the women's toilet is really long.

Separate services can be offered on the grounds of age, sex and disability. The whole point is that there is no choice for anyone, so everyone is treated the same.

Don't agree that they are trying to be less TRA and more mainstream. Look through their list if demands - it is 100% insanity turned up to the max. The core demands never change:

• Ability to choose sex in law
• Coercion of thought and speech of others, including legal punishment
• Expansion of taxpayer-funded body mod surgeries and drugs
• The application of all of this to children, including using drugs to prevent children from developing into full adults
• Programmes for indoctrination of children in schools and adults in workplaces

This will never be popular or accepted by the general public 🤷‍♀️

Remember many disabled people don’t get the choice of a single sex toilet. They don’t even get the choice of which toilet cubicle to avoid.

Yes, a quick google will confirm this too.

It will be interesting to see what the Good Law Project’s preference is. It may be to put all men and women together. However, some males don’t like unisex. They want to be in women’s toilets. It is rare in my research, that women of any gender prefer the men’s toilet over the women’s toilet and unisex.

In terms of trans people that varies depending on the jurisdiction. In the UK trans people don't have the right to use basic public utilities of their choice like everyone else

NOBODY has the right to use basic public utilities of their choice, everyone has to use the ones that correspond to their sex (if single sex provision). So Trans people have the same rights as everyone else

@Howseitgoin "You're lucky if a few hundred biddies show up judging from the '100 days since the SC decision' 'march'." ......tell me you're a man without tellig me you're a man. Why are TRA's always so misogynistic?

That would be true if this poster was arguing in good faith.

"Yes, seriously. You think people choose their sex?"
Wow, this is even getting more bizarre.
Um, whether people 'choose their sex' or not at conception is irrelevant to their preference after they are born.

You are losing the thread of your own argument. I stated that under a sex-based system, no-one gets to choose which facilities they use. You found this extraordinary, but in fact it's a natural consequence of the fact that no-one can choose their sex. Regardless of anyone's preferences, a rule that separates by sex is a system that does not allow for choice, because sex is not chosen.

This shouldn't be a struggle for you.

"Safety assessment is related but distinct. We can see the disparity by holding risk constant in both cases: trans-identified people under that policy have a choice that non-trans people do not."
Personal preferences are irrelevant to prison housing whose priority is safety not providing luxury resort satisfaction.

I agree that's how it should be. No-one, whether trans-identified or not, should be offered a choice of whether they enter the male or female estate. The fact that this is not how it operated in practice was wrong. In practice, trans-identified prisoners are given a choice that non-trans-identified people are not.

I don't know if you follow the news much, but when the Isla Bryson case blew up in Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon's explanation for why he should not have been in the woman's estate was, that he was "almost certainly not genuine". i.e., trans people have an option that non-trans people do not, and he'd pretended to be trans to access that option. This is a clear example of my "third case", i.e. "self-ID but only for trans".

Anyway -- putting my blocker on now as I need to get some work done.

If you do manage to come up with any example of the fourth case, you might make some headway persuading others on the board. So far, though, half an hour and several replies in and you haven't managed to give even one single example of the thing you claim is the general case.

I think you are someone who thinks that their beliefs proceed from the evidence and reason. This should be shifting your priors significantly.

What is a biddie exactly?

it wasn’t the media that beat me up and raped me. It was a man.

and men - in the U.K. - are
legitimately excluded from women’s single sex spaces.

if trans people don’t like that they need to campaign for a fourth space - not a third, the disabled is the third. And I will support that. What I will not support is men in women’s single sex spaces. Those men who do that are trampling on a boundary and that tells me quite a lot about them.

"Yes, seriously. You think people choose their sex?"

Wow, this is even getting more bizarre.
Um, whether people 'choose their sex' or not at conception is irrelevant to their preference after they are born.

"Safety assessment is related but distinct. We can see the disparity by holding risk constant in both cases: trans-identified people under that policy have a choice that non-trans people do not."

Personal preferences are irrelevant to prison housing whose priority is safety not providing luxury resort satisfaction.

Ha haa! Bingo! The old "echo chamber" accusation.

Just to correct you, I do not want an echo chamber. I want intelligent argument and debate that's on topic.

If only your contributions were "challenging" on the actual issues. You spout your ill-informed opinions all over people's threads that they've started in good faith. You cannot help yourself. Why this need to make other people's threads all about you? If you have something groundbreaking to say, why not start your own threads.

Women have been saying no for years. Men just haven’t been listening.

In terms of trans people that varies depending on the jurisdiction. In the UK trans people don't have the right to use basic public utilities of their choice like everyone else however that is being legally tested & given the logistic nightmare its creating may well change
No person, regardless of how they identify, has the right to use the public utilities of their choice - they do have the right to use public utilities which is provided for their sex.

The same rights as in freedom of choice isn't the same as wanting more rights
Luckily in the UK everyone has the same rights legally.

There is a legal right to be protected from certain forms of discrimination in both national & human rights law
Your point is?

The incidents alleged by Dr Upton happened before the UK Supreme Court ruled that a woman is defined by biological sex under equalities law
The SC didn’t make the law - they confirmed the law introduced under the Equality Act. Any institution that allows men to invade single sex female spaces has been breaking the law for years.

@Greyskybluesky will be only to happy to help you understand that she would prefer you maintain an echo chamber like environment lest challenging opinions 'derail' the thread.

@Howseitgoin
"Sex-based scenario: no-one has the choice."

Seriously?Please.

Yes, seriously. You think people choose their sex?

You are profoundly confused on basic points of this issue.

Safety assessment is related but distinct. We can see the disparity by holding risk constant in both cases: trans-identified people under that policy have a choice that non-trans people do not.

But you are making the case that the “fourth case” applies generally.

Name just your top two or three examples of where non-trans people get to choose either facility but trans people are banned from doing so. Hell, name one.

Anywayyyy...back to the OP.

The list of demands at https://transliberationgroup.org.uk/demands/ is quite something. I haven't the time to address them now, but a number are totally unrealistic and assume a bottomless pit of money. I guess they need to find some billionaire bankrollers quick.

…..

No, they’re suggesting that Hamas is vehemently opposed to homosexuality and transgenderism.

The equality act has been in place for 15 years before the very recent legal clarification & nary a whisper about public utilities being problematic for women until the last few years of media beat up.

This isn't a grass roots concern let alone a long standing one.