Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Criticism of Islam is a protected belief

439 replies

theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw · 09/11/2025 21:32

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15272771/Criticism-Islam-ruled-legally-protected-belief-man-banned-fined-thousands-pounds-social-media-posts.html

I wasn't able to find the judgment. There'll be a hearing in February but it's not clear to me whether claimant's beliefs have already been tested for Grainger compliance. Either way, the tribunal will (also) have to address objectionable manifestation (Bananarama doctrine).

I've raised it here because of the parallels with Forstater. It's a constant refrain of TRAs that permitting Forstater belief is tantamount to attacking GR as a protected characteristic. They do not understand secularism (or the SC ruling).

Of course the situation is not the same insofar as Islam has not been written into our law and Muslims don't expect the rest of us to follow its rules.

Article 9, anyone?

Criticism of Islam can be a legally protected belief, judge rules

Patrick Lee is pursuing a belief discrimination claim against the Institute and Faculty of Actuaries (IFoA) after it banned him and fined him nearly £23,000 last year over a series of tweets criticising Islam.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15272771/Criticism-Islam-ruled-legally-protected-belief-man-banned-fined-thousands-pounds-social-media-posts.html

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Swiftasthewind · 10/11/2025 22:44

Rightsraptor · 10/11/2025 22:41

Islam has been on these shores longer than Christianity?

Who on earth told you that massive lie? It is so untrue there aren't any words for that level of untruthfulness. Off the scale. Insane.

That would be my university professor father, who I am going to confidently predict is infinitely more educated than you.

Greyskybluesky · 10/11/2025 22:42

This poster likes to try to wind people up on the subject of race and ethnicity

Rightsraptor · 10/11/2025 22:41

Islam has been on these shores longer than Christianity?

Who on earth told you that massive lie? It is so untrue there aren't any words for that level of untruthfulness. Off the scale. Insane.

BundleBoogie · 10/11/2025 22:39

Morningsleepin · 10/11/2025 22:20

Are you paid to make up stories? Muslims have always protected Jews and Christians as people of the book. The key to the church of the Nativity in Bethlehem has been held by two Muslim families for over a thousand years to avoid different Christian sects fighting over it

Eh? Have you heard what happening in Sudan as we speak?? You seem to be missing huge chunks of information.

Or to the Yazidis?

  • More than 100 churches, Christian buildings, and even private homes belonging to Christians have been forcibly occupied during the country’s ongoing conflict.
  • There has been a spike in the abduction and killing of Christian men by radical Islamic groups.
  • Church leaders are targeted by false charges, including terrorism and apostasy, despite the apostasy law being abolished in 2020.
  • Converts from Islam face violence, imprisonment, forced marriage, rejection, sexual violence, disinheritance, and losing custody of their children. Many are forced to flee their homes, or feel that staying is unsustainable.
  • Christians are also experiencing exceptional hardship in the hunger crisis because local communities discriminate against them and won’t give them support.

www.opendoorsuk.org/persecution/world-watch-list/sudan/

Swiftasthewind · 10/11/2025 22:39

Sskka · 10/11/2025 22:27

Woah woah woah, that will be a committee of BIPOC individuals please. Reeducation classes for you.

Of course, thank you for correcting me. I try to uplift marginalised voices wherever I can help it, but I am a white women and unfortunately, can be guilty of falling woefully short myself.

I wholeheartedly apologise if my laxity has caused offence to anybody reading. I will do better.

Greyskybluesky · 10/11/2025 22:37

JadeSquid · 10/11/2025 22:34

Anyone can demonstrate bias.

I know. Tell Swiftasthewind.

JadeSquid · 10/11/2025 22:34

Anyone can demonstrate bias.

Greyskybluesky · 10/11/2025 22:32

Well, a couple of recent posters on here have led sheltered lives, for sure.

And can "POC" individuals not demonstrate bias? I have news for you...

GarlicHound · 10/11/2025 22:32

@Morningsleepin, here's a quick summary on the Moorish occupations of Spain, for your better information:
https://www.google.com/search?q=moorish+caliphates+treatment+of+jews+christians

Before you continue to Google Search

https://www.google.com/search?q=moorish+caliphates+treatment+of+jews+christians

JadeSquid · 10/11/2025 22:32

ScreamingBeans · 10/11/2025 22:29

No, research into unconscious bias says exactly that.

There are different bits of research, you see.

12 Reasons to Be Skeptical of Common Claims About Implicit Bias | Psychology Today

What I know is that several oppressed groups (including wome experience discriminatory in hiring practices once their identity as a member of said group is suspected.

CassOle · 10/11/2025 22:31

Swiftasthewind · 10/11/2025 22:27

Muslim is synonymous with outsider or non Brit. That is not my opinion, Islam has been on these shores longer than Christianity in fact, but it is how your everyday working class yahoo sees it. I do understand that Islam is a faith that brings people of all colours and sexualities together as a united people of love and tolerance in pious devotion to God, but again, we aren’t talking about us educated folk here.

Love and tolerance! He couldn't go home because they would kill him!

JadeSquid · 10/11/2025 22:29

GarlicHound · 10/11/2025 21:47

People with strongly-held opposing views work effectively together all the time. I've sure as hell worked with plenty of sexists, racists, homophobes, people of faith and political opponents.

Living in a tolerant society means having the maturity to 'agree to disagree'. Now and again, you might win someone round to your point of view. You will never win anyone over by intimidating them, though.

Why would you even be in a conversation at work about your beliefs about any religion? Why would you need to employ skills of "tolerance" to work with someone of faith?

When it comes to workplace conversations, I can understand "I'm fasting today because it is a holy day where we fast for this reason". I can understand "watch out for kids feeling unwell today. Some of them are fasting and it is particularly hot today". I cannot understand "I think Religion X is problematic".

Swiftasthewind · 10/11/2025 22:27

CassOle · 10/11/2025 22:20

Does Swift think that no one with pale skin is Muslim?

The biggest critic of Islam (and they were very biased against it) I know had to flee Iran because they were an apostate and couldn't return due to serious threats to their life if they did go back. They were genuinely frightened, and it was not an unreasonable fear.

Muslim is synonymous with outsider or non Brit. That is not my opinion, Islam has been on these shores longer than Christianity in fact, but it is how your everyday working class yahoo sees it. I do understand that Islam is a faith that brings people of all colours and sexualities together as a united people of love and tolerance in pious devotion to God, but again, we aren’t talking about us educated folk here.

Sskka · 10/11/2025 22:27

Swiftasthewind · 10/11/2025 22:23

With regards to specific issues like colonialism, racism and xenophobia, Islamophobia, white supremacy, capitalist patriarchy and cultural appropriation, yes white people should absolutely be showing deference to the opinions and lived experiences of marginalised folks.

As for your rather ludicrous example of two minority groups having conflicting views about a particular issue, well in that case taking a modular intersectional approach from a committee of POC individuals unaffiliated with either party would be the optimal solution.

Woah woah woah, that will be a committee of BIPOC individuals please. Reeducation classes for you.

CassOle · 10/11/2025 22:24

Swiftasthewind · 10/11/2025 21:56

You’d think so but you would be mistaken. If you are white, your bias will be a part of you, no matter how much you profess it isn’t. The best thing you can do is understand that and never stand in the way of progress, particularly when it is led by someone from a marginalised background. White people really should not be having any say on proposed Islamophobia legislation. It is not our place to dictate, only to listen and implement.

I should add - the above is just a new form of 'original sin' - an inherited sin. Only, the sin is shown by the colour of your skin, and it is not a 'sin' that is shared by all human beings.

Swiftasthewind · 10/11/2025 22:23

GarlicHound · 10/11/2025 22:06

You cannot be serious?! Our place is only to listen and implement.

Should we give quiet obedience to any single-interest group requiring it, or only those you choose??

What happens when two groups of conflicting interest demand it?

With regards to specific issues like colonialism, racism and xenophobia, Islamophobia, white supremacy, capitalist patriarchy and cultural appropriation, yes white people should absolutely be showing deference to the opinions and lived experiences of marginalised folks.

As for your rather ludicrous example of two minority groups having conflicting views about a particular issue, well in that case taking a modular intersectional approach from a committee of POC individuals unaffiliated with either party would be the optimal solution.

Sskka · 10/11/2025 22:22

Morningsleepin · 10/11/2025 22:20

Are you paid to make up stories? Muslims have always protected Jews and Christians as people of the book. The key to the church of the Nativity in Bethlehem has been held by two Muslim families for over a thousand years to avoid different Christian sects fighting over it

Now, are you quite sure that ‘always’ is really the right word in that sentence?

JadeSquid · 10/11/2025 22:21

ScreamingBeans · 10/11/2025 21:39

Did they also teach you that unconscious bias has very little impact on how people actually behave in real life?

We're human beings and we are intelligent. We can overcome our bias, unconscious or otherwise.

Research into unconscious bias says otherwise

CassOle · 10/11/2025 22:20

Does Swift think that no one with pale skin is Muslim?

The biggest critic of Islam (and they were very biased against it) I know had to flee Iran because they were an apostate and couldn't return due to serious threats to their life if they did go back. They were genuinely frightened, and it was not an unreasonable fear.

Morningsleepin · 10/11/2025 22:20

Bangbangwhizzbang · 10/11/2025 16:11

Strange that you mention the dark ages when Islam colonised large areas, including Spain and caused the death of millions and enslaved millions more, and where Christians and Jews had to pay a tax in order to be allowed to live. If we cannot criticise Islam then we are heading into a new dark age.

Are you paid to make up stories? Muslims have always protected Jews and Christians as people of the book. The key to the church of the Nativity in Bethlehem has been held by two Muslim families for over a thousand years to avoid different Christian sects fighting over it

Signalbox · 10/11/2025 22:13

Swiftasthewind · 10/11/2025 21:56

You’d think so but you would be mistaken. If you are white, your bias will be a part of you, no matter how much you profess it isn’t. The best thing you can do is understand that and never stand in the way of progress, particularly when it is led by someone from a marginalised background. White people really should not be having any say on proposed Islamophobia legislation. It is not our place to dictate, only to listen and implement.

Holy shit do people actually believe this sort of toxic nonsense. I can’t work out if it’s a wind up or real.

BunfightBetty · 10/11/2025 22:13

Clip-clop

theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw · 10/11/2025 22:10

Swiftasthewind · 10/11/2025 21:56

You’d think so but you would be mistaken. If you are white, your bias will be a part of you, no matter how much you profess it isn’t. The best thing you can do is understand that and never stand in the way of progress, particularly when it is led by someone from a marginalised background. White people really should not be having any say on proposed Islamophobia legislation. It is not our place to dictate, only to listen and implement.

Oh, you card!

OP posts:
IwantToRetire · 10/11/2025 22:08

Hard to understand sometimes the intent of some posts.

Or why anyone wants to answer.

Another thread on a detour.

Swipe left for the next trending thread