Criticism of Islam is a protected belief

As I and PPs have demonstrated to you, Islam and many Muslims are generally far more hard line in their views than other religions.

The point however, is that we are all freely allowed to criticise other religions. No one is proposing or attempting to outlaw criticism of any religion other than Islam.

You need to consider why people want us to stop criticising Islam or Muslims with views incompatible with our society.

Maybe Jade works for the BBC? The selective editibg/understanding/totally ignoring the actual point seems familiar.

This is the point - you’re so close to getting it. No one needs to go to court to gain the right to criticise other religions, we already can and do quite extensively.

The only religion we are not allowed to criticise and there is an intention to outlaw criticism altogether is Islam.

I'm sorry, do what? (I genuinely don't get what you are trying to say).

I don’t get the idea that you approach a bunch of activists pushing their demands and simply accept them without weighing up those demands against the rights of others. We could all draw up a wish list of selfish demands that harm other people but none of us would expect the PM to make it law without approaching those people and considering the impact on them.

Somewhat worryingly, the Labour Party have already adopted the following (among quite a bit else) as their definition. Keir has been talking to the Muslim council of Britain about his intention of making that law.

As 47% of Muslims think that gay people shouldn’t be employed as teachers for example, it would be reasonable to assume that that is an ‘expression of Muslimness’. So ‘targeting’ (a deliberately very general word) homophobia in the Muslim community would at best be subjected to a chilling effect of people worrying about breaking the law and at worst be found to be a criminal act. Ditto forced and child marriage, first cousin marriage etc etc.

Why is Keir promising such power to Muslims? The power to silence the rest of us.

From the Labour Party website:

“Complaints of Islamophobia will be investigated and processed in accordance with the Labour Party’s disciplinary policies, which can be found on the Labour Party’s website and in the Labour Party Complaint Handling Handbook.What is Islamophobia?

1. There is no single agreed definition of Islamophobia, albeit various civic, social, legal and political sources have attempted to define it. One definition is the All Party Parliamentary Group on British Muslim’s definition (APPG). The APPG defines Islamophobia as:

labour.org.uk/resources/labours-islamophobia-policy/

Are you not in the UK? Or do you only watch the BBC and read The Guardian?

There's no point arguing about whether criticism of a religion is always discrimination against its adherents, because the law already says otherwise: that Venn diagram is not a circle.

Both the critic and the religionist have the right to express their beliefs, and not be discriminated against because of them, as long as the beliefs are Grainger compliant and the manner of expression not objectionable - two specific legal tests which will have been applied in this case, by the end of the upcoming hearing in February. This is interesting because the government wants to 'ban islamophobia' - a superfluous measure in my view - which would entail defining it.

Phobia is an irrational fear of a thing

Some fears are perfectly rational (and can be demonstrated as such). Making them very much not phobias.

Phobia is an odd way to describe criticism against a religion anyway.

Is there a Muslim or Jewish person who has gone to court because they want the right to criticise other religions on SM?

I can't grasp a point that singles out Islam (or any one religion) as more problematic than others.

Can you do that?

I can't grasp a point that singles out Islam (or any one religion) as more problematic than others.

You know Catholic countries do this

I think that's your bias showing.

I think that's your bias showing.

Have they been discriminated against for doing so? If you can do something freely, possible weekly by calling for the death of Jews as you march down the street, then why would you go to court?

Is there a Muslim or Jewish person who has gone to court because they want the right to criticise other religions on SM?

I think you should call out the homophobia and others forms of abuse and discrimination by your brothers in the church (and your sisters when your brothers permit them to have a significant role) before you start on your Islamic cousins. Look in before you look out.

Thing is, in the UK we can concern ourselves with whatever we like and many of us who are brought up Christian have done plenty of inwards looking over the years. It is pretty clear to me that Christianity has modernised to the extent that it fits pretty well into modern Britain. It helps that that there is no imperative to be a Christian, no punishment for leaving the faith, no consequences for mocking or criticising the church. Women and girls are not treated as subordinate. Women in my town are not even permitted to worship in the local mosque because there is not enough space. Films aren’t being cancelled or fans banned from football matches due to the fear of violence from Christian protesters. Those criticising Christianity don’t have to go into hiding through fear of being attacked or worse. None of this can be said about Islam and we have to be able to freely say so without worrying that the state will punish us.

or Muslims being discriminatory towards Jews and Christians? Or trans people being discriminatory towards anyone who recognises you can’t change sex?

Yes I am baffled as to why you'd need to criticise any religion at work. I think that criticising one religion for something like homophobia while ignoring that all religions are homophobic speaks of a bias against Islam.

I think you should call out the homophobia and others forms of abuse and discrimination by your brothers in the church (and your sisters when your brothers permit them to have a significant role) before you start on your Islamic cousins. Look in before you look out.

Is there a reason why you are unable to grasp the point? I can’t really explain it in any more simple terms.

You are rapidly changing your stance on the idea that the majority of Christians would disown a homosexual child.

Methodists voted to allow same sex marriage in 2021. Not allowing same sex marriage is a long way from disowning a child for being homosexual.