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TempestTost · 11/11/2025 19:25

I don't think anyone is "cheering" the demise of the BBC or public broadcasting as such.

There are a few differernt things going on imo:

Some think change is possible and hope this is the wake up that will change their course.

Some think change is not possible and there needs to be a clean slate. I think many of these people believe that without all new staff the rot can't be scraped out.

Some think that this has revealed that public broadcasting is not more robust than private and so shouldn't be getting state funds.

None of that is cheering, they are all pretty reasonable conclusions that seem to fit the evidence.

TempestTost · 11/11/2025 19:00

TortillaKitty · 11/11/2025 06:23

My definition of ‘national broadcaster’ is not a North Korean one-channel propaganda machine. By no stretch of the imagination can the BBC, PBS, or ABC be called propaganda machines and you would be delusional to think so. If you did, however, remove broadcasters like this and allow channels like FOX and GB News to thrive - they are much closer in nature to propaganda, and many people haven’t been taught the ability to discern deep bias in news, or detect the difference between opinion and news.

I am saddened, but not surprised, that so many have been so deeply psychologically manipulated by greedy billionaires who don’t care about them and never will.

Delusional is quite strong, becoming captured by the state or a special interest is clearly a real issue, we can see that it has happened. If a country like New Zealand or Canada began to move toward some kind of dictatorship (and who's to say it couldn't happen,) t's very likely those institutions would become the kind of government tools we see elsewhere.

An interesting thing with the PBS is that unlike the BBC or some others, it relies a lot on direct donations from members of the public. It doesn't seem to have made it more resilient in this case, so maybe that doesn't count for much, I don't know.
From my observations, having a healthy and varied variety of media seems to be the most important thing.

DustyWindowsills · 11/11/2025 18:46

Today I've been half-listening to podcasts while trying to work.

In The Rest is Entertainment, Marina Hyde gave a clear summary of the trans component of the story. That was good.

In The Rest is Politics, Rory Stewart introduced the story by saying that the DG was brought down by two issues, coverage of Trump and Gaza. Later, Alastair Campbell briefly mentioned the BBC's trans coverage along with some bluster about how young people think it's transphobic. Obviously no other viewpoint counts. 😠

SEEN in Journalism said that the immediate cause for the DG's resignation is unlikely to be the Panorama prog, as other heads could have rolled. They reckon the DG had just had enough of the poisoned chalice, not least the impossibility of making any progress with the trans issue. I'm going to listen to them again tomorrow, to make sure I've understood that bit.

WarriorN · 11/11/2025 18:46

EsmaCannonball · 11/11/2025 14:13

Anyone read Black Box Thinking by Matthew Syed? Maybe the BBC could employ him as a consultant to reorganise around a culture of transparency and learning from mistakes instead of one of cancellations and defensiveness.

now that’s a book I feel I want to read

Chersfrozenface · 11/11/2025 18:24

Also...

There's been a blink-and-you'll-miss-it reference to the Darlington nurses employment tribunal on the Six O'clock News on the BBC this evening After deafening silence throughout the hearing.

I wonder why tonight of all nights

Actually, no I don't.

logiccalls · 11/11/2025 18:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

EasternStandard · 11/11/2025 18:09

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/11/2025 15:13

This. They’re too arrogant and sure of their righteousness. There will have to be some element of coercion involved.

Decrease in fee payers might help.

Chersfrozenface · 11/11/2025 17:59

I know the Evening Standard isn't the Metro but it has a Comment article entitled
"The BBC Trump falsehood isn't an aberration but a symptom
(subheader)
BBC groupthink goes beyond Trump to transgender issues, migration and Hamas"

and including the sentences

"As for the trans issue, a report by an independent BBC adviser, Michael Prescott showed that the Corporation’s very own LGBT desk exercises quasi-censorhip over coverage of the trans issue. It warned that the BBC is not only risking bias in its coverage of trans issues, but is confusing viewers by failing to make it clear that transgender women are biological males, or even transgender at all."

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/bbc-bias-coverage-donald-trump-immigration-trans-b1257582.html

hholiday · 11/11/2025 17:52

Waitwhat23 · 11/11/2025 12:34

There's very few that I'm seeing saying sorry.

Seems to be mostly utter outrage that anyone point out any issues and an absolute bullheadishness to concede that perhaps that the general public have a point.

If the tone from senior male journalists had been a bit more contrite and conciliatory, if women had been included in any of these panel discussions and if they didn't keep claiming that anyone pointing out issues has been brainwashed into a right wing plot, they'd be getting on better.

As it is, they just look like a bunch of petulant children after a telling off.

This – and it really saddens me. TBH I can see why the bbc fell for trans activism in such a major way. A bunch of hugely privileged people who can’t comprehend their own privilege. A need to indulge in conspiracy theories about ‘sinister coups’ and alliances being out to get them, rather than reflect on whether their critics may have a point. They have a lot in common.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/11/2025 15:13

Floisme · 10/11/2025 22:33

Well I agree, reform would to preferable to me.
My concern is that for reform to be possible, the BBC first needs to show awareness and insight into where and how things have gone wrong, and I’ve yet to see much sign of that happening.

This. They’re too arrogant and sure of their righteousness. There will have to be some element of coercion involved.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/11/2025 15:03

ThatBlackCat · 11/11/2025 09:02

We don't give a stuff who is threatening it. That is what you in your political purist spiral doesn't understand. We really don't give a fuck who does it. As long as it is threatened, and pressure brought to bear.

Yes, the BBC has made mistakes.

Lol mistakes? Mistake is mislaying your car keys, accidentally pouring orange juice instead of milk in your coffee, or an organisation's IT dept making a coding mistake and accidentally deleting their website.

The BBC made a deliberate decision, a deliberate intentional action to manipulate and edit speeches, and to not cover the most important medical scandal since Thalidomide or Ancient Orange.

This BBC didn't make 'mistakes'. They made deliberate decisions. Stop trying to minimise what they did. These were no mistakes!

Elon Musk/Trump/their cabal of billionaires have been working for a few years on the messaging of ‘defund the BBC’ or, in fact, plenty of other countries’ national broadcasters such as the PBS in the US and the ABC in Australia. If any sniff of a scandal occurs

So it's batshit crazy that the BBC would intentionally give them ammunition, then, isn't it?

Everything that @ThatBlackCat said.

EsmaCannonball · 11/11/2025 14:13

Anyone read Black Box Thinking by Matthew Syed? Maybe the BBC could employ him as a consultant to reorganise around a culture of transparency and learning from mistakes instead of one of cancellations and defensiveness.

Damnthetorpedoes · 11/11/2025 13:33

As understatement goes, Tim Davie appeared to have mastered it as he presented the BBC’s annual report. Questions poured in over whether he had ever considered his position as a succession of problems landed on his desk this year. In response, he acknowledged he and the BBC had faced a “tough period”.

The failure to cut a Glastonbury livestream, missed opportunities to address the behaviour of former presenter Gregg Wallace and criticism over its handling of two Gaza documentaries have seen a huge amount of opprobrium heading the BBC’s way in recent weeks.

Guardian - 15th July 2025

The BBC is here for good reason…

ArabellaSaurus · 11/11/2025 12:54

nicepotoftea · 11/11/2025 12:46

Again, the BBC was in lock step with Conservative policy on this issue under May.

Yes, indeed. It's not confined to the left, by any means. Cross party - just as the 'gc' pushback is cross party.

EasternStandard · 11/11/2025 12:50

hamstersarse · 11/11/2025 12:04

I see no signs of the BBC being able to even understand what the problem is, never mind fix it.

One thing I notice in life is that the left elites are totally unable to even articulate the viewpoints of the 'right' - they can only misrepresent them. They have been so captured by a sense of their own rightousness that despite all their protestations of being 'empathic' and 'listening', they literally cannot understand another point of view.

Examples are:

Expressing a concern about mass immigration = racist.

Expressing concern that Islam does not hold the same values towards women and homosexuality = islamaphobe
Expressing concern about men being in women's prisons = transphobe
Saying welfare cuts are needed and don't overall help people/nation = elitist
Saying people should get places at university / in a job, based on merit = exclusiionary

I could go on....but the point is that there is just an automatic labelling of people, a demonising with a 'bad name'. There is no attempt to understand a POV, no attempt to understand intentions and motivations, just an automatic dismissal and assumption that person = bad.

The BBC is literally full of these people, and they it will take a massive, huge undertaking to have these people even contemplate a different point of view - they have been so unused to it, never challeneged or felt discomfort when alternative views are heard. I don't hold much hope at all.

Imagine a person who supports Reform becoming the next DG at the BBC? It ain't ever ever happening.

It is entirely engrained and reinforced in hiring and promotion. They can’t see it so how can they fix the problem?

nicepotoftea · 11/11/2025 12:46

hamstersarse · 11/11/2025 12:28

I think they are 'of the left'

Almost always well educated. Surburban. Female, or what I call the 'Soy Boys'. Middle / chattering classes.

There is probably a cool name for them somewhere on t'internet that sums it up.

Again, the BBC was in lock step with Conservative policy on this issue under May.

GallantKumquat · 11/11/2025 12:43

Teribus21 · 11/11/2025 12:36

https://www.spiked-online.com/2025/11/10/the-bbc-has-gaslit-the-public-over-trans/

A very good summation of the damage Tim Davie has done by embedding trans ideology at the BBC. I think it’s going to play a major part in what happens next at the BBC.

"If a politician, public figure or journalist cannot state that men do not give birth and lesbians do not have penises, they cannot be trusted to tell the truth about 👏 anything 👏 else 👏."

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 11/11/2025 12:41

hamstersarse · 11/11/2025 12:28

I think they are 'of the left'

Almost always well educated. Surburban. Female, or what I call the 'Soy Boys'. Middle / chattering classes.

There is probably a cool name for them somewhere on t'internet that sums it up.

Perhaps - well meaning liberals who are in such fear of the changing world around them that they have pulled up the drawbridge, shut the curtains and firmly stuffed their fingers in their ears?

EasternStandard · 11/11/2025 12:40

Waitwhat23 · 11/11/2025 12:34

There's very few that I'm seeing saying sorry.

Seems to be mostly utter outrage that anyone point out any issues and an absolute bullheadishness to concede that perhaps that the general public have a point.

If the tone from senior male journalists had been a bit more contrite and conciliatory, if women had been included in any of these panel discussions and if they didn't keep claiming that anyone pointing out issues has been brainwashed into a right wing plot, they'd be getting on better.

As it is, they just look like a bunch of petulant children after a telling off.

Yes a lot of fighting talk rather than self reflection. How does that help?

Teribus21 · 11/11/2025 12:36

https://www.spiked-online.com/2025/11/10/the-bbc-has-gaslit-the-public-over-trans/

A very good summation of the damage Tim Davie has done by embedding trans ideology at the BBC. I think it’s going to play a major part in what happens next at the BBC.

The BBC has gaslit the public over trans

The broadcaster has privileged 'progressive' ideology for far too long.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2025/11/10/the-bbc-has-gaslit-the-public-over-trans/

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 11/11/2025 12:35

The BBC's slow drift from fit for purpose has taken years. Posters are expecting to see change in a couple of days?

Bringing it back to what is more relevant to this board.

It is certainly possible for the BBC to remove the Trans / LGBTQIA+ gatekeepers from the news process and return independence to their journalists.

The BBC has shown that their journalists are capable of gender critical reporting - more weight could be given to these voices

Fairly minor changes but they would require that management at the BBC were prepared to stand up to their internal GI cohort. GI believers need to accept that their voice is not the only one that needs to be listened to

Waitwhat23 · 11/11/2025 12:34

Floisme · 11/11/2025 10:23

I’ve not given up on the BBC yet but I’m seeing very few signs of self reflection beyond, ‘We made a mistake, soz’. It’s not good enough.

There's very few that I'm seeing saying sorry.

Seems to be mostly utter outrage that anyone point out any issues and an absolute bullheadishness to concede that perhaps that the general public have a point.

If the tone from senior male journalists had been a bit more contrite and conciliatory, if women had been included in any of these panel discussions and if they didn't keep claiming that anyone pointing out issues has been brainwashed into a right wing plot, they'd be getting on better.

As it is, they just look like a bunch of petulant children after a telling off.

hamstersarse · 11/11/2025 12:28

ArabellaSaurus · 11/11/2025 12:22

I agree, apart from the fact that I don't recognise that group as 'left'.

We need a different name for this movement. Authoritarian, soi-disant 'left', but in fact related far more to a very odd bundle of accepted orthodoxies.

I think they are 'of the left'

Almost always well educated. Surburban. Female, or what I call the 'Soy Boys'. Middle / chattering classes.

There is probably a cool name for them somewhere on t'internet that sums it up.

ArabellaSaurus · 11/11/2025 12:22

hamstersarse · 11/11/2025 12:04

I see no signs of the BBC being able to even understand what the problem is, never mind fix it.

One thing I notice in life is that the left elites are totally unable to even articulate the viewpoints of the 'right' - they can only misrepresent them. They have been so captured by a sense of their own rightousness that despite all their protestations of being 'empathic' and 'listening', they literally cannot understand another point of view.

Examples are:

Expressing a concern about mass immigration = racist.

Expressing concern that Islam does not hold the same values towards women and homosexuality = islamaphobe
Expressing concern about men being in women's prisons = transphobe
Saying welfare cuts are needed and don't overall help people/nation = elitist
Saying people should get places at university / in a job, based on merit = exclusiionary

I could go on....but the point is that there is just an automatic labelling of people, a demonising with a 'bad name'. There is no attempt to understand a POV, no attempt to understand intentions and motivations, just an automatic dismissal and assumption that person = bad.

The BBC is literally full of these people, and they it will take a massive, huge undertaking to have these people even contemplate a different point of view - they have been so unused to it, never challeneged or felt discomfort when alternative views are heard. I don't hold much hope at all.

Imagine a person who supports Reform becoming the next DG at the BBC? It ain't ever ever happening.

I agree, apart from the fact that I don't recognise that group as 'left'.

We need a different name for this movement. Authoritarian, soi-disant 'left', but in fact related far more to a very odd bundle of accepted orthodoxies.

Damnthetorpedoes · 11/11/2025 12:07

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 11/11/2025 11:12

Yes, there are issues with the BBC - but the report is now public knowledge and hopefully will be acted on.

So the external scrutiny has been heard, admittedly in non ideal conditions. The system is sort of working

Not sure how you can make that assertion just a day after yesterdays carnage.

There is still the small matter of Trump and his potential 1bn litigation.

Lastly, has the BBC even admitted it has a systemic problem relating to bias?

Until then…