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EasternStandard · 10/11/2025 08:10

Damnthetorpedoes · 10/11/2025 08:07

From yesterday morning.

Nandy said she retained confidence in the handling of the issue by Shah and Tim Davie, the BBC’s director general, who has yet to speak about the matter.

Nandy not looking too good is she?

This will feed up to Starmer too

RedToothBrush · 10/11/2025 08:10

I think what gets me, is that it's been a long time coming in terms of this coming to a head.

A lot of people have seen this coming for a long long time. And have warned.

Whether the BBC survives or not depends on whether it can work out the cognitive dissonance or not. If it can't, it will fail.

I love the BBC. I really think it's great. We still shouldn't underestimate it's value to us as a nation. It has a huge amount of soft power throughout the world. It remains important.

We should be worried though - Mr Bates versus the Post Office was made by ITV. It wasn't a commercial enterprise. It was hugely important in the UK but it couldn't make money overseas. It was a economic white elephant. We have ITV in the process of considering a bid from Sky to take over at the same time as this BBC crisis.

So we should all be fully aware of what's at risk here - and the danger of ending up with a situation like the US where every channel is a source of mind numbing rot that has no interest whatsoever in the concept of the public interest.

WarriorN · 10/11/2025 08:09

Her father helped create the first incarnation of the equality act.

WarriorN · 10/11/2025 08:09

Nandy’s mother worked for ITV and Nandy ALSO really needs to get a grip here ffs

Damnthetorpedoes · 10/11/2025 08:07

From yesterday morning.

Nandy said she retained confidence in the handling of the issue by Shah and Tim Davie, the BBC’s director general, who has yet to speak about the matter.

Nandy not looking too good is she?

WarriorN · 10/11/2025 08:07

Bagamama · 10/11/2025 07:51

This. Sadly.

hopefully seen in journalism and outspoken journalists such as Sonia and Nick won’t let them.

these people will be able to publish on other, very loud platforms. The bbc will have egg on its face.

for example, Sonia and others are now regularly in the times

Nick could quite easily chase the tails of the post office scandal, write a book, and get it televised on channel 4 or Netflix

just like Labour, and he bbc, have GOT to ‘get with the programme’ here, literally

for me, the bbc is like the nhs in the uk.

calls for defund are pointless as so very many people just listen without much awareness of All This Shit.

for example, CBeebies features on my lesson planning as the bite sized and even some cbbc / CBeebies programmes are so useful.

We use number blocks - national numeracy schemes include number blocks now as part of their own programmes.

colour blocks is also excellent and iirc they’ve launched a coding related one.

a new joe wicks programme is great for short hitt routines for younger kids.

they’ve got relaxation routines . They even now have Pokémon which has helped bring kids back to cbbc. So they have a duty of care tbh

Bluey is practically circle time.

everyone I know watches traitors and race around the world, kids included —whilst I rock in a corner listening to GC podcasts, hence only on episode 5 of celeb traitors, no spoilers please

Damnthetorpedoes · 10/11/2025 08:01

Helleofabore · 10/11/2025 07:57

“Pressed on criticisms levelled at the BBC over its coverage of Donald Trump, the war in Gaza and the trans row, Ms Sandher-Jones added: “Of course, we have to make sure a broad range of views is reflected”

And yet, part of the criticism is that the beeb didn’t give voice to a range of legitimate views.

Totally agree.

“As the CEO of BBC News and current affairs, the buck stops with me. In public life leaders need to be fully accountable, and that is why I am stepping down.”
Deborah Turness

Starmer and Reeves take note.

RedToothBrush · 10/11/2025 08:00

WarriorN · 10/11/2025 07:15

Excellent post @RedToothBrush

Yes - it’s where balance and truth comes to a head

it’s peak cognitive dissonance

Yep.

I think it's really well summed up by the paradox of being an institution with a statue of Orwell outside, with a quote warning of the dangers of left wing authoritarianism being unable to identify all the things that Orwell warned against within its own institution.

The irony couldn't be stronger.

Journalism is founded on the notion of being able to hunt down and explain the truth as people experience it. The irony here is that we have Nick Wallis in the mix here now - a journalist who has a reputation for doing just that - who found a home at The Telegraph. He simply couldn't work for the BBC because he'd be tied up in knots like Katie Razzle displays because she's hampered by the institutional dictact that she must report both sides. Both siderisms is destroying the BBC. The BBC has got caught in the trap of thinking impartiality means you shouldn't seek the truth because it will upset someone. The BBC needs to understand that somethings you can't do this with because the entire point is the destruction of the truth.

You need to be able to see your own weaknesses and be able to speak truth to power by understanding the priority is how these stories affect the viewer, the person on the ground, the person who is a nobody. They should be the central focus of all your reporting. Now how one political group or leader is going to throw a tantrum if you don't describe reality and get to the nitty gritty.

We know the issue with the whole trans issue is this unspoken point that WE ALL KNOW. Trans issues rely on us recognising and seeing sex even while sex is denied. It is fundamental to trans identity. You can't be trans without knowing your own sex. Transactivism is about this power of knowing sex and trampling all over boundaries of sex - even if this causes other problems and is unwanted. Those problems have to be made invisible to appease this power. Journalism should be identifying problems and how they affect people without power hence why it's such a sticky point for the BBC. It's failing to do this.

Katie Razzle certainly knows about these - she is a regular newsnight journalist who has reported on the subject. And as such she will be well away of the discontent and why so many heavy duty BBC journalists have left the broadcaster in recent years PRECISELY because of the BBCs policy on trying to suppress the subject rather than supporting journalists trying to get to the heart of problems.

In a way Katie Razzle therefore in writing that article almost becomes the poster girl of everything that's wrong with the BBC and why it has such a crisis right now.

Surely she MUST know and be able to see the problem, just as we all know that's a man in a dress but aren't allowed to say it out loud. And if she REALLY REALLY can't then she exemplifies why if the BBC can't get to grips with this, it's doomed on these type of issues because it will be shown up and dragged over the coals by journalists elsewhere who will identify the problem and will drag it kicking and screaming to account or will bring it down entirely.

I don't ever understand the decision to revamp newsnight tbh. It was a show that had few viewers but it was a cornerstone in upholding key issues which cut through and it's small viewership were influencers in their own right. Instead the BBC decided to go for popularism to try and dumb down and get bigger viewer numbers. As a rule the BBC should go for viewers but this was one show that ultimately broke the rule and they didn't understand it's importance to the corporation - because it championed quality journalism for the people even if the people didn't tune in. Again it almost represents paradox within the heart of the BBC in not understanding the importance and value of high quality journalism to its brand and reputation.

It is very much an existential crisis for the BBC. That's the point.

Helleofabore · 10/11/2025 07:57

Damnthetorpedoes · 10/11/2025 07:54

Tone deaf and completely in denial….

A minister has claimed the BBC can “absolutely” still be trusted despite the bias scandal of the past week.

On whether people could still have faith in the corporation, Louise Sandher-Jones, the veterans minister, told Times Radio: “Yes, absolutely. I think it puts out a huge, huge output every day across a huge, huge range of topics and I know many people go to it for their first point of call.”

Pressed on criticisms levelled at the BBC over its coverage of Donald Trump, the war in Gaza and the trans row, Ms Sandher-Jones added: “Of course, we have to make sure a broad range of views is reflected.

“I know in my work as MPs I speak to many people, I know there’s a huge, huge range of opinions ... On the whole the BBC is one of the most trusted institutions across the country.”

“Pressed on criticisms levelled at the BBC over its coverage of Donald Trump, the war in Gaza and the trans row, Ms Sandher-Jones added: “Of course, we have to make sure a broad range of views is reflected”

And yet, part of the criticism is that the beeb didn’t give voice to a range of legitimate views.

Damnthetorpedoes · 10/11/2025 07:54

Tone deaf and completely in denial….

A minister has claimed the BBC can “absolutely” still be trusted despite the bias scandal of the past week.

On whether people could still have faith in the corporation, Louise Sandher-Jones, the veterans minister, told Times Radio: “Yes, absolutely. I think it puts out a huge, huge output every day across a huge, huge range of topics and I know many people go to it for their first point of call.”

Pressed on criticisms levelled at the BBC over its coverage of Donald Trump, the war in Gaza and the trans row, Ms Sandher-Jones added: “Of course, we have to make sure a broad range of views is reflected.

“I know in my work as MPs I speak to many people, I know there’s a huge, huge range of opinions ... On the whole the BBC is one of the most trusted institutions across the country.”

Bagamama · 10/11/2025 07:51

Mollyollydolly · 09/11/2025 18:58

They'll make it all about Trump. We're still invisible.

This. Sadly.

EasternStandard · 10/11/2025 07:50

Chersfrozenface · 10/11/2025 07:24

The BBC has been branding itself a "trusted news source" for years.

It has an entire section on "Trusted News" o its website:
www.bbc.co.uk/beyondfakenews/trusted-news-initiative/

It's been showing its "The fight for truth is on" trailers ad nauseam for months.

(Though oddly enough, "The fight for truth is on Trailer (short)", sub header "We pursue the truth, so disinformation has nowhere to hide", is no longer available on the BBC website.)

I'll give them some advice. Want to be trusted? Stop broadcasting obviously biased news stories and programmes. Want politicians and commentators to stop attacking you? Stop making bullets for them to fire at you, then.

It’d be interesting if they could sell themselves as this with a subscription service.

There’s demand for a trusted news source, I’m not sure they’d deliver.

Damnthetorpedoes · 10/11/2025 07:49

Taytoface · 10/11/2025 07:47

The levels of denial are fucking EPIC.

Just stepping back a little. For the army of activists who have infiltrated every aspect of public life, the law, the police, our schools, the NHS, our political parties, our unions, our news rooms, what have they managed to achieve?

We left the European Union

We are likely to have Reform as part of the next government.

Trump is in the Whitehouse

Racist and anti immigrant sentiment is in the rise

Palestine is in ruins

Committment to the environment is in tatters

The law has been made crystal clear, men can't be women

We have had some major scalps, Wee Nicky Sturgeon, now Tim Davie.

When will they see that their tactics aren't working. Having only one set of acceptable beliefs that seem to come out of some undergrad common room, and then brow beating anyone who dares to question them in even the mildest way, is not how to persuade people of anything.

I'm am socially centre left and fiscally further to the left again. I am so fucked off that those people who I should probably be aligned with are so blinkered that they are a total fucking liability, and as much of the problem as Trump and Farage are. But they will never, ever admit this. They will go to their graves convinced this is 💯 down to being a right wing conspiracy theory.

Edited

Chickens always come home to roost - always.

Talk about a bonfire of the vanities.

Taytoface · 10/11/2025 07:47

The levels of denial are fucking EPIC.

Just stepping back a little. For the army of activists who have infiltrated every aspect of public life, the law, the police, our schools, the NHS, our political parties, our unions, our news rooms, what have they managed to achieve?

We left the European Union

We are likely to have Reform as part of the next government.

Trump is in the Whitehouse

Racist and anti immigrant sentiment is in the rise

Palestine is in ruins

Committment to the environment is in tatters

The law has been made crystal clear, men can't be women

We have had some major scalps, Wee Nicky Sturgeon, now Tim Davie.

When will they see that their tactics aren't working. Having only one set of acceptable beliefs that seem to come out of some undergrad common room, and then brow beating anyone who dares to question them in even the mildest way, is not how to persuade people of anything.

I'm am socially centre left and fiscally further to the left again. I am so fucked off that those people who I should probably be aligned with are so blinkered that they are a total fucking liability, and as much of the problem as Trump and Farage are. But they will never, ever admit this. They will go to their graves convinced this is 💯 down to being a right wing conspiracy theory.

Chersfrozenface · 10/11/2025 07:24

The BBC has been branding itself a "trusted news source" for years.

It has an entire section on "Trusted News" o its website:
www.bbc.co.uk/beyondfakenews/trusted-news-initiative/

It's been showing its "The fight for truth is on" trailers ad nauseam for months.

(Though oddly enough, "The fight for truth is on Trailer (short)", sub header "We pursue the truth, so disinformation has nowhere to hide", is no longer available on the BBC website.)

I'll give them some advice. Want to be trusted? Stop broadcasting obviously biased news stories and programmes. Want politicians and commentators to stop attacking you? Stop making bullets for them to fire at you, then.

WarriorN · 10/11/2025 07:15

Excellent post @RedToothBrush

Yes - it’s where balance and truth comes to a head

it’s peak cognitive dissonance

Floisme · 10/11/2025 07:13

Thanks @Igneococcusfor the Sonia Sodha share token. I’ve been waiting for her to write about it and, as usual, she says everything I’d like to say but more eloquently.

I don’t want this to be the end for the BBC. I believe in a public service news broadcaster. (I’m less persuaded of the need for publicly funded game shows but I’ll park that for now.) But only if the broadcaster is impartial. Right now I’m still hoping and choosing to believe this will turn out to be the kick up the arse the BBC needed to sort themselves out. I am very aware that I might be wrong.

WarriorN · 10/11/2025 07:09

Apologies for the x, I was getting an in depth assessment of a ‘nerf Xshot insanity smoking Barrel’ from afar as I typed

there’s a witty correlation there somewhere but I’ve not had my coffee yet

WarriorN · 10/11/2025 07:05

@RedToothBrushi very nearly tagged you to find out your thoughts about that article! Thank you, will read in a while x

RedToothBrush · 10/11/2025 06:53

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07m2v1z4evo

Interesting article by Katie Razzle speculating on the BBC mess.

She says

It appears there has been a rift between the Board and the news division with some arguing the BBC has, for too long, failed to address institutional bias inside the BBC and others questioning whether what's unfolded has been an orchestrated - and politicised - campaign against the corporation which has claimed two big scalps.

For the best part of a week, since the Telegraph first broke its story, I haven't been able to understand why the BBC did not get on the front foot in the face of a deluge of damaging headlines about claims of systemic bias.

It needed to divide the allegations into two distinct stories.

The first, about the edit of the Trump speech in the Panorama programme, needed addressing immediately. Either with a swift apology - or indeed a case made for why the BBC believed it had not mischaracterised the president's words.

That would have allowed the BBC to come out fighting more widely on behalf of its journalism. Remember, it was being accused of institutional bias. Of a lack of impartiality. Accusations that cut to the heart of its news operation.

With an apology for the mistake around the Panorama (or a robust defence), it could have gone on to try to refute the other claims about institutional bias.

It could have said that the BBC had already been taking action to ensure editorial impartiality, and had already acted, for example, on issues at BBC Arabic.

Instead the BBC allowed the story to fester - and we ended up in a situation where the Trump White House was calling the BBC "fake news" and it had some traction.

My understanding from multiple sources inside the BBC is that a statement on Panorama had been ready to go for days.

The BBC planned to say on the Trump edit that it hadn't intended to mislead the public, but that in light of looking at it again, it believed there should have been some kind of white flash or wipe, to make clear to audiences that these were two distinct parts of the speech.

I understand Deborah Turness became more and more angry and frustrated as the week went on because she was prevented by the Board from putting out that apology.

Instead the BBC Board decided a letter to the Culture Media and Sport Committee was the way to go.

(Others have told me it's not as clearcut as this characterisation. That it took some time for news bosses to accept the Panorama edit had been an error and that there were discussions on all sides on how to respond.)

Many, both inside and outside the BBC, see the failure to respond as a grave mistake. The Telegraph's drip feed of allegations was damaging - and the BBC wasn't tackling them head on.

I have been told that Turness then went into a board meeting on Thursday to discuss the crisis around the Telegraph stories and was "ripped apart", as some have described it.

Those who have called the BBC's journalism into question would call that accountability.

But another source characterised it as the culmination of a "relentless critique of BBC journalism over two years by members of the Board and advisers - all of whom come from same political persuasion".

But another source characterised it as the culmination of a "relentless critique of BBC journalism over two years by members of the Board and advisers - all of whom come from same political persuasion".

They point to Robbie Gibb, a former BBC editor who left to become Downing St director of communications for Theresa May and who is now a member of the Board.

The former Sun editor, now BBC presenter David Yelland has called it "nothing short of a coup". He claims the BBC Board has been undermined and "elements close to it have worked with hostile newspaper editors, a former PM and enemies of public service broadcasting".

But another former Sun editor, Kelvin MacKenzie, had a very different take. Speaking on the BBC News Channel, he said the resignations were "the right thing to do - this was an issue that was never going away".

The editing of the speech, he said, could have led to Trump suing or the BBC being banned from the White House. "If you can't be trusted on that [the speech of the US president] what can you be trusted on?" he said.

It's not a coup.

It's a redress of unchecked power and a lack of accountability in politicisation within the BBC.

It's characterised as being a right wing political take over. It's not. It's people accurately saying that the bias at the BBC which has long been driven by the BBC has become that problematic that it ultimately threatens the integrity of the BBC.

The BBC should have apologised straight away, but actually the issue there is it would have just moved on and not addressed the underlying issues of bias if it had done that.

Kevin MacKenzie is spot on saying if you cant trust the BBC on basics then it's fucked. People will try and make out this is a 'right wing coup'. I honestly don't think it is. We've seen all the accusations here about being far right if you are GC or that you are being led by the American right and all its money for being GC.

It isn't the case.

It's about a failure of the left to address its own overreach and how levels of censorship and bias have been unchecked for so long that the Corporation is now out of step and alienating the public.

The BBC SHOULD be using language accurately and not in a political way. This is why the Martine Croxall verdict is so poignant. She was told off for using plain language in general usage rather than the approved political language which destroys the visibility and power of women. We are told that it's 'right wing' to refuse to want to get into the business pronouns but as we know on MN a lot of those fighting hardest against pronouns here and much more politically left wing or centrist than any of these activists are willing to admit.

It's about a removal of power from ordinary people and the language they use day to day to institutionally approved language which the public never agreed to and there is no public support for. It's about this top down power - it's BBC over reach for many years.

It's notable that even now in its coverage of the subject the BBC has removed references to biological sex from quotes. You have no choice but to ask why. This seems to be something they are super keen to repress and don't want to tackle head on. This ISN'T a right wing coup to want to talk about biology. Let's get this straight, just how many of us feel politically homeless because the left won't recognise sex.

This is the BBC terrified that if they don't use accurate language they'll have a bunch of young people abandon the channel. Let's be honest, those young people aren't watching anyway and actually the issue is that they are pandering to an overly amplified noisy bunch of activists who don't really reflect young people all that well anyway. They are fairly unrepresentative. You have a weird thing of many young people saying they believe x,y and z when asked by authority because they've been taught if they don't say that they get ostracised. In practice their private views often are much more complex and still developing. If the BBC abandons reality to chase them they seal their own fate by dooming themselves to irrelevance for just talking nonsense and not reflecting the wider public and not reflecting this ongoing issue with top down power and distortion by social media.

It needs to be seen in the context of a series of public scandals of this nature where both the public and private sector have claimed there's no issue / there's no complaints etc etc and yet there's a shed load there that's not too hard to find - but has been hushed up or been invisible to power from above because it's not ticked their boxes. We KNOW that complaints go under the radar. We KNOW that not everyone answers truthfully when authority asked a question. We have to be aware of identifying public mistrust and institutionalised misrepresentations. This is the bread and butter of journalism that the BBC is currently missing precisely because it's guilty of many of the same institutional problems. You have to start asking WHY there is such a back lash, is it actually a right wing backlash or is it a deliberate political mischaracterisation precisely to uphold a political narrative of its own.

We KNOW here that the biological backlash in the UK is NOT a right wing thing? How else do you explain the internal strife WITHIN the SNP, Greens, Labour and the LD if it's a right wing thing. The political issue of the last decade has been about how the focus in politics has shifted from left and right wing concerns to concerns about liberalism versus authoritarianism. The BBC have NEVER got to grips with this - they made an almighty pigs ear of it over Brexit and they continue to do so precisely because their issue is about internal authoritarianism.

It's effectively about a systematic suppression of internal critical complaints which deliberately seeks to undermine and consider the complaints of certain groups - PARTICULARLY women - because they don't fit the agenda and what the institution wants to here.

You can't have journalist integrity AND go around telling your staff that they have to be trained to lie about sex or erase sex - it's so integral to lived experience and the meaning of a story. Hence why courts are saying it's not ok to sanction women for refusing to call a male, male in a sex related court case.

You can draw a clear line connecting political hot potatoes of the past decade like the Post Office Scandal, Grooming Scandal, Grenfell to the same sort of problem. All have similar features about why these issues continued - it was about the institution being more concerned about the institution and protecting itself rather than addressing problems and dealing with how it was impacting on those it had a duty of case to - it's about powerful people versus the people. It's about institutional power being used against grassroots.

Katie Razzle is a good journalist. But even in trying to report this fairly she can't get to the heart of the problem because she has to engage in both siderisms rather than acknowledge its about a failure to commit to the principle that journalism sometimes isn't about pandering to political disagreements - it's about getting outside of that and seeing if it's actually raining outside and reporting on that.

The heart of this issue is that it doesn't want to look at whether it's in step and in tune with what the public are noticing. The fact we all know here the dynamics of the problem speaks volumes. Katie Razzle still can't describe what we can all see because she is tied to BBC protocols which just ultimately aren't working. She's institutionalised herself.

An employee walks inside BBC headquarters at New Broadcasting House

Katie Razzall: A seismic moment that shows rift at top of BBC

There may be more to this than meets the eye, says the BBC's culture and media editor.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07m2v1z4evo

Damnthetorpedoes · 10/11/2025 06:51

I hope that this is the beginning of the end for BBC news & politics, if the BBC is to survive at all.

Speaking of institutional dinosaurs, no longer fit for purpose - let the NHS be next.

WarriorN · 10/11/2025 06:50

Thank you Ig!

WarriorN · 10/11/2025 06:50

Just read this on bbc app and gave been re reading this part over and over. Not sure what to think!

Katie Razzall: A seismic moment that shows rift at top of BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c07m2v1z4evo

Tim Davies Resigns - Can Gender Critical Movement take some credit?
AlecTrevelyan006 · 10/11/2025 06:41

Mollyollydolly · 10/11/2025 01:16

Yes he just replied to me when I asked 'would you have edited it like that?' that he wouldn't but it was a minor error. I mean the fact Trump could quite happily sue the BBC for eleventy billion dollars doesn't seem very minor to me, but each to their own Lewis.

Yes, some people are still trying to fob it off as error, but it’s not simply that.

A typo is an error.

No matter what your politics are, the examples sighted in the leaked document are of deliberately engineered mis-representation, bordering on deception.

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