Survey on culture in the UK - 'trans rights' questions

Ooh spot the transphobia. What did you just say there????

And what about when that very vulnerable woman has a mental health crisis and ends up in a secure hospital ward ... and finds she is sharing it with a male person because he identifies as a woman. It's a locked ward. She can't get away . Is that ok?

Or she needs intimate physical care, in a hospital, or at home. Should she have to spill her whole history of having been sexually abused in order to be allowed genuinely same-sex care?

No you need to explain it. If trans women are women - your belief not mine - what possible reason could there be for them to be excluded from womanhood in some circumstances?

But it is not just about safeguarding! What about my question? Would you really be ok with males showering with teenage girls? (Or indeed any females but the situation we had was with teenage girls). Why do their wants and needs not matter? Do you ever consider what a disservice we are doing to our daughters by telling them they have to have no boundaries?

We do not agree this. There needs be nuance and understanding and i believe you are not very understanding.

This is a very strange question. I've seen male child minders, teachers, pediatricians, etc, and they all have access to children. If they abuse the children is that somehow my fault? There have many reports of cis women abusing children, is that somehow my fault? Or maybe they are yours? What will you do then?
You're questions are just a way of accusing all trns peiple of being abusers, which they ar not.

I'm going to assume that you mean you're a female who doesn't identify as a woman. Please do correct me if I've got that wrong.

If that's the case, good for you. If it brings you comfort not to identify as a woman and makes sense to you, great! One thing you'll unfortunately probably need to accept though, if you want to stay sane and not feel angry at the world, is that not everyone shares your belief that everyone has a gender identity.

And if you end up deciding you want to take cross-sex hormones or remove body parts to help affirm your belief that you're not a woman, it's worth noting that there is an increasingly mounting evidence base that shows the harm that testosterone does to the female body.

@Gnasher1981 You don't actually believe that TWAW though. You just haven't really thought it through logically. If you did, you wouldn't believe that trans women should be excluded from anywhere that is female only. The fact is, you know there are legitimate reasons for excluding males from female spaces but for some reason you prefer not to think about it. I'll ask you again - why do you think my teenage daughter should have to change in front of males? She doesn't want to and neither do her friends.

Wonderful. So you agree that TW are bological males.

Fabulous. They can use the single-sex spaces, sports categories, etc. for biological males or unisex spaces then.

Glad that we can agree on this.

@Gnasher1981

Can you answer my question please?
I've asked it 3 times now.

They can’t. ERCC v R Adams.

I don't think anyone who works in a rape crisis centre should discuss this with you at all tbh.

I feel trans women shouldn't work in a rape crisis centre because there will be some very vulnerable victims there who will be unable to open up to a biological I cal male.
This is not a trans person's fault, it is a difficult situation and I think we can all agree there needs to be a lot of understanding for the victims needs.
Even a violent anti trans woman who is a rape victim deserves help.
I think those who work in rape crisis centres can explain it better than me.

Trans isn't a protected characteristic.

The protected characteristics are

• Age: Protection from discrimination based on age.
• Disability: Protection for individuals with a disability.
• Gender reassignment: Protection for people who are proposing to undergo, are undergoing, or have undergone a process (or part of a process) for reassigning their sex.
• Marriage and civil partnership: Protection for those who are married or in a civil partnership.
• Pregnancy and maternity: Protection from discrimination related to pregnancy and maternity leave.
• Race: Protection against discrimination on the grounds of race, including color, nationality, and ethnic or national origins.
• Religion or belief: Protection based on religion or belief, including lack of belief.
• Sex: Protection based on being male or female.
• Sexual orientation: Protection against discrimination because of a person's sexual orientation.

So you don't believe in any separation of men and women, or adults and children, at all then? The bad'uns will find a way anyway, so throw open the doors and let all comers in?

In fact sod it, why do we even bother with changing rooms or private toilets at all? Let's strip in the streets and piss in Roman-style communal latrines with joyous abandon!

Becuse if it's wrong to have general exclusions, then that goes for everything surely. I mean, you would not be so prejudiced against men that you'd only exclude the trans identifying ones from having to be treated as a possible threat, right?

Honestly, I am SO SICK of this LIE that people who want to maintain the existing rights, protections, boundries and yes, opportunities that exist to support female people "assume all trans people are SAs". It is such a lie.

Beyond the stastical differences we no more assume TW are SAs than any other man. We just do not believe they are women and do not accept the degradation of having to pretend they are because they have some sort of sexist idea that their mind is a womanny one. And that is an entirely reasonable, fair and resoectful position to take.

Well, @Gnasher1981 has admitted he would believe all transwomen.

I've repeatedly asked what if he was wrong and had given a predator the opportunity to harm a little girl, what then?

Gnasher has been unable to answer.

This is the bit I can't get my head around. That and the fact that if a TW rapes someone, she/her pronouns are seemingly no longer deserved.

I would understand it a lot more if Gnasher held a consistent belief. Either TW are women or they aren't. It seems cruel to hold a belief that TWAW but then gatekeep some kind of arbitrary standard that determines if a TW is the right kind of TW or not. Surely you either accept people's gender identity is whatever they tell you it is (the main premise of believing that TWAW).... or you don't.

And there we have it.

Every single time 🙄.

Aye, if you say so. You have been consistently debunked on this thread alone, did someone send you over here from Reddit for a dare?

Light years behind, eh Gnasher???
😂

This doesn't make much sense. In any case, it is not just about safeguarding. When it comes to getting changed, for example, most men want to change with men and most women want to change with women. Why should my teenage daughter be forced to change with men (however they identify)?

C'mon we might be getting somewhere here.

Then that person will find a way no matter what

You've admitted you would believe this person.
But actually he is a predator. You accidentally gave him the opportunity to sexually harm a child.

What then @@Gnasher1981

I don't feel lke I'm a woman. I came on mum's net to to get womens perspective on topics and found what I would call a very anti trans group on here.
I've talked to many women, including, mum's, about this subject and most of them do not hold the views I have found I on here.
It's rather interesting tbh.
I'd say you guys are light years behind.

Also, @gnasher1981 you say i can be a snail if I say i am one. But even if I genuinely amd sincerely believed I was a snail would you personally actually believe that I am a snail? Even if you met me and saw a middle aged woman that looks nothing like a snail?

As this is the logic you are creating with TWAW. A woman is anyone who says they are a woman. So a man just has to say that he is a woman and - poof! - just like that, you believe he is a woman, even if he's a well-built 6ft 5in man with a beard and wearing boxers that leave little to the imagination?

Do you think people can also identify as being of a different race or age? Or disabled?

What is it about a TW rapist that means they're not actually a woman (in your view as i understand it). And why exclude TW from working in women's rape centres if you actually believe TWAW?

I would love to understand how you square this logically.