Is FWR like a vegetarian restaurant that meat eaters keep going into and say it is an echo chamber to stick to saying they dont serve meat

[edit : ill thought-out response deleted!]

No, I think the OP means that users should be able to have the discussion you describe in good faith, without constant derails and dishonest posts from community disruptors.

By which I don't mean 'people who disagree' (see my previous two posts) but people who only come on here to do what in the 90s was called 'trolling' - pretending to think that posters meant something quite different from what they actually said, with the intention of insulting and provoking well-meaning explanations etc to disrupt the actual exchange and analysis of views.

Eg if I wanted to troll you, I'd post something like "wow, you think racists should be listened to on this? The fact you want to give the floor over to racists reveals a lot about you".

Would you ignore that and continue whatever you were discussing, or would you feel you needed to defend this (spurious, deliberately goady) accusation of racism?

Better analogy.

Trans Activists are people who swear blind they are veggie but eat fish and think that if you don't eat fish you aren't a proper vegetarian.
FWR are vegetarians.

Nah, How's just likes a wee random italic in a sentence. It's always a bit baffling which word is chosen, seemingly at random.

Wait, italics are bad? 🤔

The 60 bottles of piss and the bloke in the weird duck mask pouring piss all over himself outside the EHRC offices in Westminster was certianly a lowlight.

Oh, mate.

Owwww, stop, those italics are huuuuuurting me!!!

Honestly, what is it about TRA's and piss? Absolutely obsessed.

That and italics.

Err, don't expect any coherence here. This OP constantly 'forgets' the premise of their posts which in this case is that the MN sex & gender forum is "theirs" & goes on to make an irrelevant analogy about vegetarian restaurants as if this forum's website has specified only one specific ideological dish on the S&G menu.

"Not only do they not have the right, they should be scolded and endlessly interrupted and have their forum bogged down in repetitious whatabouterry."

Perhaps a more relevant analogy might be wild animals claiming territorial boundaries via a pissing contest? 😂

And I remember, when the FWR boards were split, women who have gender critical views were told to 'fuck off to your own board' by those who had demanded the Feminist Chat board. That really was creating an echo chamber on the (since proven to be rather irrelevant) Feminist Chat board.

But we still get fairly regular howls of 'why are you obsessed with talking about sex and gender!!' ...on the sex and gender board.

I do wonder sometimes if they wander onto the Doghouse board and demand to know why they're not discussing cats.....

And people are free to do that. No banning, no muting, but also no presumption that they will find instant agreement or not meet robust argument disagreeing with them. There are other feminist boards on here for more general feminist discussion or chat.

But again, you're basically saying that this branch is purely for strongly GC women, so no-one else should come here with any other expectation. But it's not. It's for everyone to discuss/express an opinion on sex and gender, whatever their take on it.

Well done for getting "fascistic" in, Howse, right up the top of the responses! Did you know the word "fascist" doesn't mean "something I don't like"?

OP, I like your restaurant analogy. The feminism board tends to attract feminists, as one would expect. We express many different opinions, give and ask for information, and share thoughts and ideas. We make jokes, send hugs and listen sympathetically when someone needs to have a rant.

It also attracts some antifeminists, who take up space with boring lectures, groundless complaints, and unconstructive demands. We don't owe them anything, but we are usually polite. And it is quite funny when some of them claim to be feminists, while demanding that we prioritise men.

I'm not getting all of this vegetarian/vegan talk. I've been vegetarian for 44 years...long before radical veganism became a thing. I'd say radical veganism now belongs in the 'identity politics' stable.

When I first became vegetarian I did know some vegans and I attempted this discipline myself but found it too difficult to sustain in the long term, outside of those veggie circles. Back them being a vegetarian was difficult enough when you mixed outside of 'the community'; eating out and at the homes of family members etc

I was probably more of an activist in my youth on the matter...but certainly no longer, and have to say I find the recent vegan trend to be annoying.....and many new vegans don't really last the course because it is too extreme.

It's far easier to be a vegetarian these days and most restaurants serve veggie choices; though I will never eat in a steak restaurant or in a place which is heavily focused on meat, for the reason I find it aesthetically unpleasant to be around.

If someone who is not GC (or not GC enough for the majority) they should be able to be heard and their point discussed without venom

Did you read my recent post regarding exactly this?

As I said, I'm genuinely, honestly, curious about the beliefs of people who think that the difference between men and women is something other than the sex of their bodies, so I ask about it.

I am never given the courtesy of a response.

Frequently if there is a response they reword the question that was actually asked into a strawman.

Instead of "here is my view, let's see what yours is and we can analyse where they diverge" it's constant derailing and refusal to even set out what their point actually is.

Is that what is meant by "echo chamber"?

Not sure it's a very comparable analogy, because vegetarianism is very much a minority position whereas womens rights are vital for 50% of the population. Also it doesn't affect anyone else's life if one person chooses to eat meat or another person chooses not to.

The womens rights/trans rights situation is more like if a group of activists wanted to make it mandatory and unavoidable that all vegetable products globally must be coated in a mix of lard and beef fat, and expect muslim, jewish, hindu and buddhist people to just shut up about it. TRAs want to make it impossible to have a single-sex space anywhere, or to have anything at all that is reserved just for women, for any reason. It affects a lot of people.

How long have you been posting here, I wonder? I'm not suggesting that other voices aren't permitted. They are, clearly...and most people here are not in the habit of reporting posts and trying to get people banned just because they continualy counter the main thrust and purpose of the board. But this board has long been the place ( for a long time virtually the only on-line place) for grassroots activism on this issue.

It has been a central rallying place , and a place to share, diseminate and educate. Personally, I'd never had anthing to do with MN before seven years ago.... and still don't get involved or even read other sub forums. It has been an incredibly important resource and platform.

But you're here. Your post won't be deleted, we can't (not that I would) mute or block you, you aren't kicked off for having a different opinion, and you can (with talk guidelines) disagree with other posters to your heart's content.

Other people disagree with your opinion. They are allowed to.

i'm not sure what your point is about the majority - should there only be a certain number of women who disagree with you allowed to post at any one time in order to make you feel better?

What's your thoughts on the actual echo chambers of Reddit and Twitter?

This!

No.

This branch is for sex and gender discussion. Not for 'sex and gender talk for GC women'

If someone who is not GC (or not GC enough for the majority) they should be able to be heard and their point discussed without venom. But that isn't what happens, generally. Virtually all the regulars here agree with each other, so it pretty much is an echo chamber.

So to go back to the OP it's like food club for omnivores to talk about food, and the benefits or downsides of being a carnivore, omnivore, vegetarian or vegan. But this is a food club where if you're not vegan, you and your views are not welcome.

This sub forum was intentionally hived off ( from the main feminist board) years ago at the request of those who didn't want to discuss trans ideology and gender identity theory and its negative impact upon female people. It has long been established as the place where people ( mainly women) could meet to discuss, share experiences, follow court casees, inform and organise on this particular issue.

There was a time, just a few years ago ,when discussion was literally forbiden elsewhere; and even on here women were being banned for speaking freely and openly. You have to intentionally seek out this particular sub -forum, and anyone who does so is being disingenuous to suggest they were not aware of any of the above and expected anything other than they have found.