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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

They scraped Mumsnet again.

314 replies

ArabellaSaurus · 08/11/2025 17:26

archive.ph/e0u3Z

https://bulletin.appliedtransstudies.org/article/4/1-3/7/

Another data scrape. I'd say it's also defamatory against Mumsnet.

I've archived.

Article is a load of tedious wank, as you'd expect.

'In this study, however, we excavate what it means to write like a GC by analyzing how GC forum users rely on reactionary language and deploy storytelling practices in ways that calcify their anti-trans ideologies as personal and natural while rendering transgender people as anti-feminist, dangerous, and monstrous. To identify how GC groups perform political mythmaking and construct extremist identities, we undertook a computationally assisted discursive analysis of two popular GC forums: Ovarit and Mumsnet’s “Feminism: Sex & Gender” board (abbreviated to “FSG”). Through comparative platform discourse analysis, we analyzed over 80k posts and comments scraped from Ovarit and over 60k posts and comments scraped from Mumsnet (Burgess and Matamoros-Fernández 2016; Lewis and Marwick 2017)'

The only mildly amusing thing about it is the name of the Journal.

BATS.

“I Took a Deep Breath and Came Out as GC”: Gender Critical Storytelling, Radicalization, and Discursive Practice on Ovarit and Mumsnet

Following the closure of the anti-trans subreddit r/GenderCritical, gender critical (GC) internet users have migrated to more obscure, invite-only spaces. A side-effect of this GC dispersal is that activity in online anti-trans spaces has become increa...

https://bulletin.appliedtransstudies.org/article/4/1-3/7/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Domesticatednottamed · 09/11/2025 10:03

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 09/11/2025 09:51

Plus the framing of anyone GC as 'far right' (not just right wing, although they can never explain the difference), hateful bigots (degeneracy framing).

All these terrible women sticking to their framework of discussing their rights and refusing to be bullied out of it into anyone elses, same shit different names.
It really does come down to no.

IBorAlevels · 09/11/2025 10:03

I think we can safely say there are a few flaws in the methodology, zero ethics process for starters. It's baffling how they assume posters are all women, or even prove it's not just their mates calling themselves women making up pearl clutching phrases that fit to their research which is what I suspect
I hope they aren't paying for university fees because I don't feel they are getting the most of them.

Brainworm · 09/11/2025 10:00

SinnerBoy · 09/11/2025 09:41

Howseitgoin · Today 09:29

The left wing one's tend to be more moderate as in they stick to the issues of conflicts in rights sans the 'degeneracy' framing.

Oh, you are funny! I suppose that general physical intimidation of women, judo throwing them and stealing their cameras, punching them hard enough to fracture a skull, doxxing and turning up at their houses, concerted, co-ordinated campaigns to cance and sack them, (enabled and encouraged by employers) not to mention online death threats, complete with men in fetish gear, brandishing their pet knives, axes and barbed wire wrapped rounders bats are...

Erm ... moderate?

And I dont mean "Funny ha ha."

Howse seems to conveniently ignore this horrible side of transactivism, alongside the breadth of people included under the trans umbrella.

The label trans includes very vulnerable and mentally unwell people, quirky non conforming people, and dangerous and degenerate people. He is right to point out that the latter type heavily feature on FWR threads, but fails to recognise or acknowledge why.

FragilityOfCups · 09/11/2025 09:56

Tbh though I have the choice of which posts are worth expending energy on.

In this case, the actual topic of the OP is important enough that I'm choosing to talk here about the scraping of MN data, that is now - I thought - clearly banned in the site's Ts and Cs, so I'm interested to see where it goes from here.

FragilityOfCups · 09/11/2025 09:53

DeanElderberry · 09/11/2025 09:45

Okay so. I'll continue to know that you are telling a big fat lie. Again.

The liar is desperate for more Baileys chat!

Baileys in hot chocolate - yes or no?

Boiledbeetle · 09/11/2025 09:53

DeanElderberry · 09/11/2025 09:45

Okay so. I'll continue to know that you are telling a big fat lie. Again.

Germonleen and Maud agree with you Dean.

Brainworm · 09/11/2025 09:52

Howseitgoin · 09/11/2025 09:35

Oversimplification.
The categorical error you keep conveniently making is assuming all male bodied people offend at the same rate when they don't. IE younger, poorer straight men offend at significantly higher rates than older, wealthier gay men. In fact studies show gay men convict at lower rates that lesbians.

And the trans population being so minuscule it's not possible to make any meaningful statistical conclusions.

….and younger, poorer straight men offend at a significantly higher rate than young, poorer straight women, and older wealthier gay men offend at a higher rate than their female counterparts.

On another thread you confirmed that you accepted that reproductive sex is immutable and therefore accept that reproductive sex is a category. This is the category that posters on this thread are referring to when discussing offending rates.

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 09/11/2025 09:51

SinnerBoy · 09/11/2025 09:41

Howseitgoin · Today 09:29

The left wing one's tend to be more moderate as in they stick to the issues of conflicts in rights sans the 'degeneracy' framing.

Oh, you are funny! I suppose that general physical intimidation of women, judo throwing them and stealing their cameras, punching them hard enough to fracture a skull, doxxing and turning up at their houses, concerted, co-ordinated campaigns to cance and sack them, (enabled and encouraged by employers) not to mention online death threats, complete with men in fetish gear, brandishing their pet knives, axes and barbed wire wrapped rounders bats are...

Erm ... moderate?

And I dont mean "Funny ha ha."

Plus the framing of anyone GC as 'far right' (not just right wing, although they can never explain the difference), hateful bigots (degeneracy framing).

DeanElderberry · 09/11/2025 09:45

Howseitgoin · 09/11/2025 09:12

Every thread on the feminism gender has some version of a perverse portrayal of trans people. And no, I'm not fetching for what you already know to be a fact.

Okay so. I'll continue to know that you are telling a big fat lie. Again.

Shortshriftandlethal · 09/11/2025 09:42

Howseitgoin · 09/11/2025 09:29

The left wing one's tend to be more moderate as in they stick to the issues of conflicts in rights sans the 'degeneracy' framing.

Authoritarianism and desire to close people down is very typical of far left behaviour; especially in recent years.

Many of us have been around the left for most of our lives because we have roots in left wing type activism. We know it very well.

ArabellaSaurus · 09/11/2025 09:42

OnAShooglyPeg · 09/11/2025 09:41

It's good to know that all those who smear groups of GC people as old hags are also part of the far right. How inclusive they are these days!

they're letting anybody in these days.

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ArabellaSaurus · 09/11/2025 09:41

Shortshriftandlethal · 09/11/2025 09:40

Plenty of examples recently of gay men being prosecuted for sexual offences...not so many lesbians. Funny that!

Howse will presumably be counting males among those 'lesbians', so its meaningless anyway.

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SinnerBoy · 09/11/2025 09:41

Howseitgoin · Today 09:29

The left wing one's tend to be more moderate as in they stick to the issues of conflicts in rights sans the 'degeneracy' framing.

Oh, you are funny! I suppose that general physical intimidation of women, judo throwing them and stealing their cameras, punching them hard enough to fracture a skull, doxxing and turning up at their houses, concerted, co-ordinated campaigns to cance and sack them, (enabled and encouraged by employers) not to mention online death threats, complete with men in fetish gear, brandishing their pet knives, axes and barbed wire wrapped rounders bats are...

Erm ... moderate?

And I dont mean "Funny ha ha."

OnAShooglyPeg · 09/11/2025 09:41

ArabellaSaurus · 09/11/2025 09:32

Smearing an entire group is of course Howse's only plan of attack. Weak effort, imo.

It's good to know that all those who smear groups of GC people as old hags are also part of the far right. How inclusive they are these days!

Shortshriftandlethal · 09/11/2025 09:40

Howseitgoin · 09/11/2025 09:35

Oversimplification.
The categorical error you keep conveniently making is assuming all male bodied people offend at the same rate when they don't. IE younger, poorer straight men offend at significantly higher rates than older, wealthier gay men. In fact studies show gay men convict at lower rates that lesbians.

And the trans population being so minuscule it's not possible to make any meaningful statistical conclusions.

Plenty of examples recently of gay men being prosecuted for sexual offences...not so many lesbians. Funny that!

sanluca · 09/11/2025 09:40

But we don’t know if a man is poor, straight, gay, bi, rich or has labelled his feelings as being womanly to then estimate his risk to us. It is like the pit of snakes. Some snakes in the pit are poisonous, but only a few. Will you get in the pit?

Shortshriftandlethal · 09/11/2025 09:39

Howseitgoin · 09/11/2025 09:12

Every thread on the feminism gender has some version of a perverse portrayal of trans people. And no, I'm not fetching for what you already know to be a fact.

You can only go on that which you are presented with.

'Trans people' are not some unique category of human being. They are either male or female - like all of us; complete with recognisable patterns of behaviour and often a typical range of interests, preferences, talking points etc

ArabellaSaurus · 09/11/2025 09:37

'gay men convict at lower rates that lesbians.'

We're going to need to see your evidence here.

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Howseitgoin · 09/11/2025 09:35

ArabellaSaurus · 09/11/2025 09:29

Men, Howse. Men.

We talk about the fact that 99% of sexual assaults are committed by men. 80% of violent assaults.

Nobody cares if the men say they are trans, non binary, priests, rabbis, scout leaders, policemen, or politicians. Men have sought ways to enable them to abuse victims for the whole of history.

Oversimplification.
The categorical error you keep conveniently making is assuming all male bodied people offend at the same rate when they don't. IE younger, poorer straight men offend at significantly higher rates than older, wealthier gay men. In fact studies show gay men convict at lower rates that lesbians.

And the trans population being so minuscule it's not possible to make any meaningful statistical conclusions.

SinnerBoy · 09/11/2025 09:33

Like most if not all corrupted causes, they start off with kernels of truth/legitimate grievances but has ended up as a gate way to extremism.

Except in the case of trans extremist zealotry, they skipped any pretence at a kernel of truth and leapt straight into violent extremism.

ArabellaSaurus · 09/11/2025 09:32

OnAShooglyPeg · 09/11/2025 09:31

"but I suppose that all goes with the far right package of smearing an entire group."

Stereotyping is a far right trait, now?

Smearing an entire group is of course Howse's only plan of attack. Weak effort, imo.

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OnAShooglyPeg · 09/11/2025 09:31

"but I suppose that all goes with the far right package of smearing an entire group."

Stereotyping is a far right trait, now?

ArabellaSaurus · 09/11/2025 09:30

PermanentTemporary · 09/11/2025 09:26

Given that the first sentence refers to banned Reddit users migrating to ‘obscure invitation-only spaces’, does either author explain why Mumsnet is included at all? MN being neither obscure or invitation-only?

Also the timeline is shit. r/gender critical was banned in 2020 according to my research (I googled it. This seems publishable, amirite?) They do mention the proposed UK reforms to the GRA, placing that in 2017, but so far I haven’t come across any description of what the actual proposed reforms were in relation to how women reacted to them. It’s like trying to describe the campaign to repeal capital punishment but without any reference to what capital punishment actually is.

Possibly talking about Ovarit, which required an invite. As did that other one ... cant recall the name ...

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Howseitgoin · 09/11/2025 09:29

TomPinch · 09/11/2025 09:19

You're being selective. It's easy to find GC people on the left and the right, just as the previous poster said.

The left wing one's tend to be more moderate as in they stick to the issues of conflicts in rights sans the 'degeneracy' framing.

ArabellaSaurus · 09/11/2025 09:29

Howseitgoin · 09/11/2025 09:25

"The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad."

The point you're spectacularly missing is the generalisation/stereotyping (that ironically GC's were supposed to be against) of transpeople…but I suppose that all goes with the far right package of smearing an entire group.

'They’re eating the cats & dogs'…

Men, Howse. Men.

We talk about the fact that 99% of sexual assaults are committed by men. 80% of violent assaults.

Nobody cares if the men say they are trans, non binary, priests, rabbis, scout leaders, policemen, or politicians. Men have sought ways to enable them to abuse victims for the whole of history.

OP posts: