Would a biological woman identifying as a trans woman be accepted in the trans community?

So, when a man dresses as a woman he is no longer just a transvestite, whether he is gay or straight or has meat and two veg is irrelevant to whether he is biologically a man.

Despite mental delusion or dressing up boxes, biological sex does matter.

It doesn't sound very inclusive, does it? 🤔

Could a woman identify that yesterday her feet felt male but today they detransitioned?

If this isn't possible, how does Eddie Izzard flip back and forwards?

Oh I see, you’d go along with the pretence of femaleness, in words, for politeness, but in reality it would make a difference if they were actually female or not. How you treated them would not be the same as an actual boring normal woman, and it would be hard to express that without using words that contradicted them being ‘female’ if you wanted to decide for yourself about something. You would have to say, I’m sorry Im not comfortable with a man in this space, or whatever.

The discomfort and intimidation of having to cross a potentially angry, potentially mentally unstable man is really difficult.

It would be better if no one had to, and it was normal to refer to men as men, women as women without any fuss or anger, women would feel more comfortable setting their boundaries then.

🤣🤣🤣

I would accept them saying they’re female but I might not accept their help/service or whatever it is they’re there for. How would I know that I’d be able to speak up for myself, I wouldn’t know, maybe I’d feel intimidated and stay quiet.

So maybe you would accept them saying they were female, or maybe you would not. It depends. But you feel able to decide for yourself and speak up. Not everyone does.

It was not nice for me, I wouldn’t say they were good experiences, certainly wasn’t comfortable and definitely not confident in the situations. Like I said I can’t comment on intimate exams, I don’t know how I’d feel if a trans woman were there to do it, possibly decline it but I don’t know it would just depend if I felt comfortable or not

Again, that’s nice for you, that you have had good experiences with men, you are comfortable around them in undress, and you are confident to decide for yourself that you will either accept or deny their statement of gender and bear the consequences.

Ive had a breast and post birth exam from men, one was fine, one was very awkward. But I think if it was a man dressed as a woman doing it and I was supposed to pretend he was a woman, I would wonder what on earth was going on and ask for a chaperone at the bare minimum. Luckily I feel able to expect and demand good care, and complain if it’s not acceptable.

But other women are not in the position we are in.

But you did. You said if anyone said they were female you’d accept it. So by your logic if you ask for a female HCP but a male shows up saying he’s female, you’d accept that.

I didn’t say that’s what they were to me, just because they said they are it doesn’t make them a biological woman. I said if they told me they’re female then I’d just go with that (not that I think they are). It would be more of a ok you’re telling me your female (or male whichever way they’re going) I can clearly see your not but out of respect for however you want to live your life I’ll go with it for the sake of having a conversation or something simple like that.
I couldn’t comment on any intimate exams because I’ve had a male doctor exam breasts to check for breast cancer, I had a male doctor deliver one of my babies and also another male doctor for a different breast issue. They were all male and just doing their job.

When i was young I used to imagine, in certain sorts of circumstance, that inside I was a man who fancied other men. I am female and heterosexual.

All kinds of psychological identifications are possible.

She might feel that her 'true self' is a male person who identifies as a woman. Why not?

'Trans' is surely identifying as something you are not already. If someone can transition from one 'gender identity' to another then there is no logical reason why a 'cis' woman could not find herself identifying as a man who identifies as a woman. Why not? It is all 'gender' isn't it. How do you know how someone else feels?

Perhaps, I went by the part where you said if a person said they were a female, that’s what they were to you. It didn’t matter if they were biologically female or not.

I do think it’s important to be clear, for other people, who are not posting on mumsnet and debating, but are still worthy of consideration and care.

You’ve read something I’ve wrote and interpreted what you think I mean by it, I haven’t said or implied I’d be ok with any of the scenarios you gave or even anything to the equivalent of that.

That’s nice for you, but do you think everybody else must also do the same? For example some women don’t want a man doing their smear tests. You might not care, but that’s your choice. Some women might not care if a convicted sex offender does their smear without gloves on, but that doesn’t mean it’s reasonable for all women.

Man and woman are very clear to all ages and levels of education and language backgrounds. It should not be confusing for anybody no matter how disadvantaged and vulnerable they are, it should never become a barrier to communicating clearly.

Ahahaha please someone post this question in Reddit 😂

It should not be socially acceptable.

Not because their feelings are wrong, but because they have picked the wrong name for them. The thing a trans woman feels is not at all the same thing as being physically female and so it should not be labelled as if it were the same.

I support people who experience gender finding their own new language to name their feelings. It is not for me to impose words for their feelings onto them, any more than it is for them to impose new meanings on the words we already used for sex.

It just needs to be different to the pre-existing language of sex.

Because as you can see, using the same words to mean different things is distressing trans people who believe their gender should entitle them to be treated as the opposite sex simply because of a coincidence of naming, and also distresses people who do not identify as a particular gender but nevertheless are finding people assume they do simply because of the name of their sex.

The latter is especially pernicious for women (in the sex based meaning of the word) since the gender associations of "woman" are often infantilsing, trivialising, over sexual or otherwise offensive or belittling. This is why many women (in the sex based meaning) do not recognise anything of themselves and their lives as women in the gender identity expression of trans women.

Yes, different language for different things would be fairer all round.

Just imagine, if only the genderist community had embraced their gender as additive to rather than exclusive of sex this whole argument and all the distress it causes need never have happened!

Because they’re determined to invade female spaces. They’re not women, they’re not female, they just want to force other people to view them as such. They are male and men.

So by that logic why is it socially acceptable for trans people to say they are something they are not? If a biological man wants to be a trans woman why can they say they’re a woman if they’re not? They’re biologically a male but describe their gender as female.

Which is exactly what I’ve said 🤦‍♀️

Well we can go with man if you’re male or woman if you’re female?

What words do you suggest? It makes no relevance to me what anyone identifies as, I don’t need to know people’s biological sex. If someone tells me there a female ok you’re female (whether they are or aren’t that’s how they want to be seen/addressed so that’s just what I’ll go with)