Girlguiding faces legal action from parent over trans policy

Scouts have been mixed for years, long before we heard of 'trans'. One troop was pleased because several Leaders had daughters as well as sons. They started letting the girls join in the activities at camp, kayaking or hikes etc. That went well.

It is a profound degradation and humiliation for institutions to expect women and girls to tolerate (under fear of reprisal) the false notion that a male can be female and be just the same as them, and have access to all their spaces, language and status. This is what Girlguiding are doing to young girls. It is psychologically harmful. It is coerced association and coerced belief / proselytising.

So what you are saying is that girls should learn from age 6 that they aren't worth safeguarding from sexual assault and harassment from males because the feelings of males is more important. It's ok for a small number of girls to be sexually assaulted or harassed so that boys can be affirmed as girls.

Gotcha.

Would you like to say what number of girls being assaulted is an acceptable number as collateral damage before we should take safeguarding seriously, just so we can put this into context?

How many girls need to be abused for the benefit of the feelings of males who are either lying or themselves being sold a lie about sex by their parents?

Come on, how many is acceptable?

Can we have a number please?

Is this what equality of sex looks like?

Nobody is “blaming an incredibly small number of children”.

The point is that Brownies and Guides are single sex. If you start making exceptions and allowing certain boys in, it’s not single sex.

We are discussing single sex spaces for girls, which many women feel are beneficial, not least because from a very young age, boys and girls are treated differently by adults, often to the detriment of the girls present in mixed sex groups.

If you want to argue there’s no point in being single sex under 10 (or whatever random age you want to pick) then argue away, but don’t try to pretend it’s about women on here blaming a small number of troubled boys. I think we all accept those boys are not at fault. They’re just boys and, as such, don’t belong in Brownies.

It's not about children being a threat to others. It's about telling children they have no right to privacy and boundaries from the opposite sex. It's adults allegedly qualified to work with children openly telling lies that a boy is a girl and vice versa.

I've taken countless groups of children away on residentials - usually mixed sex groups where the safeguarding includes ensuring single sex bedrooms / dormitories etc. Pretending that a child is really the opposite sex - and catastrophically with the GG - pretending that adult males are really women and therefore able to undertake direct supervision of girls in dormitories etc - undermines both safeguarding principles & the wellbeing of all children.

Me too - I was a district commissioner at one point so thought I’d come back to it when the kids left home/go to uni. I loved the ‘Girls Can’ mantra and the way it enabled girls to try shooting, archery, climbing, kayaking etc outside the male gaze. Watching shy and nervous young girls blossom, gain confidence, develop leadership skills was so enriching - for me as much as for the girls themselves. GGUK have destroyed that ethos, and something that was incredibly special. Am gutted.

But it’s not any different to Scouts. It is also mixed sex but not being up front about it. And also discriminating against boys who do not think they are girls by letting in boys who do.

You/your parents were able to make an informed choice about Scouts knowing it’s mixed sex.

The “Hell” they’ve been through was most likely at the hands of abusive/homophobic parents. It’s not in the remit of young girls to sort them out.

Indeed psychiatrists helping them tro understand that they’ve been wrongly taught to despise themselves and their male bodies and teaching them it’s okay to be a feminine male would be a positive step towards them accepting themselves and learning to live with who they are.

Of course, if you’re an AGP posting, then chances are you need those poor boys to hide your fetishized perversion behind. And if you’re the bullying parent who couldn’t accept their feminine son, then I pity you for not loving your child as he was.

Thank goodness for the wonderful women still supporting Girl Guides in the face of this invasion and thanks to the parents bringing this case, protecting their own daughter as well as thousands of other girls.

Good. Hopefully some other parents will now have the confidence to do the same.

So hold on. You want them to allow some boys but discourage others? Why? Why are some boys to be included but others not? Why do you believe girls are not allowed their own groups?

You may be forgetting Ranger Guides.

Being embarrassed or judged is a form of harassment.

But it is a potential harassment. Having to get changed, to deal with periods and puberty in front of a male bodied child against your wish and your parents knowledge is harassment.

This is true. But both the legal case and the article present that as not being the case.

The whole issue is "potential harassment" and or "discrimination". Which is presenting any none female in the program as a threat to their inclusion or safety.

Very different from it just being a different environment to scouts so girls can be themselves without feeling embarrassed or judged, wouldn't you agree?

Anyway, it's not just a matter of 'threat'.

All the Guides sections used to overtly be about girls having a space away from boys.

This encouraged self-expression, where girls felt more able to express themselves and more comfortable doing so and participating in activities without fear of judgment from boys.
It fostered girls' confidence by providing a space where girls felt secure enough to try new things and take on leadership roles without being judged or shouldered out by boys.

Then look at why. Instead of blaming an incredibly small number of children. It is not beneficial and just comes across as hateful towards all of the other sex.

To be clear I agree this does happen.
But it isn't just boys that do this. And to push the problem onto one sex is to ignore it when the other does so.

There are plenty of incidents of sexual assault happening in primary schools unfortunately.

Perhaps you would like to keep in touch with reality on this. It's been extensively reported in the press just how young some kids who are behaving this way are.

To differentiate itself from the mixed sex scouts and precursors to it.

(I did scouts. I was never harmed by any one. Despite males both young and old being present).

@Lowzi
Guides is for females.
Female spaces exclude all males.
whatever their age or preference

So can 10 year old girls.

So why the focus on a small number of boys and not harmful behaviours and beliefs. Like hatred, bullying and harmful online content/violent content.

That's what I'm asking.

At what point does a child become a threat to other children. And why?

Guides is up to 14.

That's what I'm asking.

At what point does a child become a threat to other children. And why?

Guides is to 14... :|

A child under 10 who thinks they're born in the wrong body and are really the opposite sex is a child who is not being safeguarded by the adults around them.

Sex change / transgender ideology is an adult belief that children are intellectually and emotionally unable to navigate.