Girlguiding faces legal action from parent over trans policy

Yes. You really have to wonder what kind of grown man wants to be a girl guide leader?
I mean, girl guides, like cheerleaders schoolgirls etc are a known fetish for some men. Horrendous as that is.

Yes. You really have to wonder what kind of grown man wants to be a girl guide leader?
I mean, girl guides, like cheerleaders schoolgirls etc are a known fetish for some men. Horrendous as that is.

I expect safeguarding regardless of how children or adults identify. Safeguarding in various situations - overnight, changing facilities and contact sport definitely needs to be applied. Otherwise why do we have them at all? And we know we have these safeguards for good reason. We therefore don't abandon them the second someone identifies out of their gender because sex and gender are separate things and physically sex doesn't change regardless of how you identify. This is recognised legally.

In terms of how girls/ women have less confidence and different physical abilities and physical barriers I have come to appreciate some single sex only groups.

It is recognised by a number of outdoor adventure sports that the macho nature of boys puts off female participation. The official governing bodies have been putting these on, because they recognise this and they recognise that women want to talk about biological issues without men present. They have realised that different coaching styles work better for different sexes as a result. For example for kayaking women face certain challenges in terms of simply carrying equipment and physical strength in the water. They don't want men to patronise them and necessarily pick up boats for them. They prefer to work in pairs so they don't have to rely on the physical strength of the men. In coaching they tend take longer to build confidence to approach the same obstacle and this is largely because the men have more brute force and ignorance whereas the women - even the bigger ones - can't match them for strength and have to rely far more on strength. There's also a whole bunch of issues around periods etc. It's not that women can't do these activities - it's just that in practice they have to do them differently. It's about time we recognised this.

It's totally understandable for Guides too. In school from primary age the boys do dominate physical activity with a much more rough and tumble aspect. This is fine and great and some girls are happy with that. Others less so. That doesn't mean they don't want to do the same activities. It means they want to do them without being dominated by the boys.

Guiding and Scouting have completely different cultures and ways of doing things. Personally I think guiding isn't well run and needs a rocket up it's arse, but I also think there's a place for it, if it gets it act together.

Anyone who doesn't understand all this is following outdated bullshit and needs to get their head out of their arse before they find themselves legally up shit creek.

And are not the problem anyway.

The people who are the problem are the trans identifying Guide Leaders. There is no world in which a male bodied trans identifying Guide leader has a benign intent. A genuine trans identifying person would volunteer with the scouts instead. Or at parkrun. Or a chess club. Anything mixed-sex.

There are plenty of incidents of sexual assault happening in primary schools unfortunately.

Perhaps you would like to keep in touch with reality on this. It's been extensively reported in the press just how young some kids who are behaving this way are.

Logging off from this toxic thread — I’d rather spend my time with people who don’t mistake empathy for weakness, and who see that compassion and inclusion aren’t threats to feminism

That’s legal garbage.

Yes that’s great - but the very big difference is that girls are kept safe as they have separate sleeping arrangements and safeguarding in place and everyone knows who is who. Same with Air Cadets and other youth groups

If your main priority is the inclusion of men and boys to the detriment of women and girls, you aren't a feminist. You are a male rights activist.

And are not the problem anyway.

The people who are the problem are the trans identifying Guide Leaders. There is no world in which a male bodied trans identifying Guide leader has a benign intent. A genuine trans identifying person would volunteer with the scouts instead. Or at parkrun. Or a chess club. Anything mixed-sex.

To differentiate itself from the mixed sex scouts and precursors to it.

(I did scouts. I was never harmed by any one. Despite males both young and old being present).

Plenty join scouting.

You may be forgetting Ranger Guides.

Those posters who want to support trans girls (male children) should go and set up their own mixed-sex activities group for anyone with a feminine presentation.

You could call it "glitter club" or something.
Unfortunately the name 'rainbows' is already taken.

You don't get to hijack the existing female-only organisation without a fight.
Go set up your own.
(Then wait to see how many female children actually want to join.)

I would just like to express my gratitude to all the women who respond so effectively on these threads - I wish I had the ability to verbalise in the same way as some of the responses I am seeing!

That's an offensive, nasty and manipulative response and an inaccurate reading of my post. I’ve never suggested women or girls exist to serve anyone, quite the opposite.

I believe all girls, including trans girls, deserve safety, respect, and the freedom to be themselves without being treated as a threat. Supporting a marginalised minority of young people doesn’t diminish women; it’s part of what equality actually means.

You seem to have very little compassion - do you work with young people?

Quite honestly, I'm disgusted by what a bunch of transphobes you are. What do you think we have the kids doing on guiding? Running around and flashing their genitals? As nice as it is to have a girl only space (any by girl I mean anyone who identifies as a girl, not just those who were born with female genitals), I sincerely hope that if the issue is curved on this, the way Girlguiding responds is to change who they accept so they accept girls and boys (but keep the name Girlguiding so it doesn't appeal to boys). We might have less of a struggle for leaders then too because we wouldn't be putting off dads/men.
Seriously, get a grip and stop hating on people for who they are.

That's what I'm asking.

At what point does a child become a threat to other children. And why?

Yes that’s great - but the very big difference is that girls are kept safe as they have separate sleeping arrangements and safeguarding in place and everyone knows who is who. Same with Air Cadets and other youth groups

Funnily enough I worked with other leaders and we were a safe space for all our children.

Scouts have been mixed for years, long before we heard of 'trans'. One troop was pleased because several Leaders had daughters as well as sons. They started letting the girls join in the activities at camp, kayaking or hikes etc. That went well.