Girlguiding faces legal action from parent over trans policy

So where would a trans child sleep? With children of their sex or chosen gender?

Or a trans leader, for that matter? I wouldn't want to share a tent with a man.

By sex, by age, by friends. Sometimes a lot to work out but we put the children first and made the effort.

In their regulations it's gender - but at least this is clear to parents, who are then free to say "my child needs separate accommodation by sex not gender".

I expect so? The boys know full well they’re boys, and the confused ones who think they’re girls are all in the girl guides, being validated.

Separated by what? Sex?

I don't see what's snidy about stating the truth. What's to explain? We had separate sleeping and toilet facilities.

Any other leaders seeing snidy Scouts posts on their social media saying "Scouts is open to everyone?"

They still haven't explained how they maintain single sex bathroom/sleeping facilities though.

This is unfortunately my experience too. It's not something we'd discussed, but we we had made plans regarding safeguarding issues and I thought we were quietly in agreement. I've also gone with the GG have handled this badly answer and obviously they have, but I'm shaken by the grenade that has been thrown into our groups.
A PP has mentioned that there is deliberate intent behind this from the MRA activists within trans groups and I suspect there's truth in this.

• Edited to add, the PP didn't mention MRA, but I do feel there is a big element of incel behaviour within trans groups.

Unfortunately I think it's professionals who are the most susceptible to the whole TWAW / TMAM propaganda. And younger people.

That's why there's so much capture in the arts, media, universities etc. It doesn't surprise me that the result of the trans movement is to sow division in women's groups. I wonder if that was the aim all along.

Anyway, I hope you can keep your team together. Good luck.

Yes, loads of girls in all the local Beaver/Cub/Scouts units near me. Ironically there are a couple of brownie packs (one I had to set up 11-12 years ago due to lack of volunteers) and one guide unit serving the town and surrounding villages, but 5-6 different scout units that are choc full of boys and girls in my area.

Whilst I feel it is VERY important to have single sex provisions for girls, the mixed sex Scouts provision is much more popular these days. It was a wise move for them to go co-ed back in the 90’s.

GGUK hammered a nail or two in its own coffin by not recognising the importance and particular value of a girl-only space and protecting it.

And the girls can go with them. We had lots of girls when I volunteered with scouting. No problems.

They could move to Beavers and Cubs where they won't have a problem. I very much enjoyed my time volunteering and we gave great support to boys and girls. Local primary contacted us to thank us for how we had helped children.

I would mildly point out that Girlguiding has to obey the law however 'unfortunate' that is. Also tell them they are doing fantastic work supporting girls and you would be sorry to lose them - it would leave their brownies without an organisation. Now is probably not a good time for full disclosure. Good luck.

So the woodcraft folk are now trying to muscle in on the trans kids who can’t go to guides anymore… because of those mean females….so they’re inviting them to join Woodcraft….

But my friends …. “If you feel that you need dedicated support or you want find and LGBTQ specific youth group… (signposts to another org)”

So those women and girls who want a dedicated group for biological females are despicably unreasonable and mean transphobes… but it’s absolutely fine for the trans kids to do exactly the same thing.

HOW CAN THEY NOT SEE THE FUCKING HYPOCRISY?! 🙈🙈🙈

Focus on safeguarding law.
Reiterate your policies on safeguarding children.
Leave sex and gender out of it.
Focus on making children safe.

They will see that the emperor has no clothes

I have been surprised to discover this might actually tear my leadership team apart. I run Brownies with two others, both a bit younger than me (I'm 41) and we've never really discussed trans issues. Turns out they are both really upset by this decision, and are joining campaign groups, posting petitions etc. Both are considering giving up volunteering and I can't run the unit on my own. I didn't feel like our busy meeting yesterday was the time to start a debate, so said something along the lines of "they've handled the whole thing badly from the start." But I'm wondering if they'll start to infer from my silence...

These are not stupid people. They're both professionals, generally very sensible, and excellent leaders with loads of experience in Guiding. But we seem to be worlds apart on this issue, and I am worried how this is going to play out for us as a team.

I've just replied to the Girlguiding email with a brief positive message saying how happy I am that they've made Guides about girls and women again and how great that is for girls, parents and leaders.

I wanted to counteract the online moaning and show that many parents are happy about this decision.

And thank you so much to the parent who put in the work preparing for legal action! Time well spent :)

DESGUSTANG!!!

I feel the same about my previous Stonewalled employer where I was sniped at in meetings for “needing more training on the Equality Act.” 🙄 My comments at the time were entirely in line with the law as written. I knew they were muppets then and that I was right. The recent FWS SC ruling confirmed it.

If you break it down to the most basic things, a single sex girls group has very few safeguarding issues, a mixed sex teenagers group has much more safeguarding issues. Teenage boys and girls sharing showers & sleeping spaces at camps for one thing. We sex segregate and chaperone things like this after the age of 10 for good reason, to disregard this because a boy says he thinks he’s a girl is foolish and naive.

I thought that male to female transition is mainly a middle aged thing, and female to male transition is a youngsters' thing, sometimes because they are autistic or gay or both. So I am assuming there aren't that many trans girls to cause all this angst in the first place.

Anyway, yes they can join cubs. Or another unisex organisation that caters to their hobbies.

Seems to me that the bigger fight is yet to be won - dealing with transwomen helpers.

But it was the parents who told these boys they were girls. It’s up to the parents to try to undo the harm they caused. These children were so let down by the people who were supposed to protect them. But that’s not women’s problem. Why should women have to be the ones picking up the pieces.

Yes. Guiding always has been open to all girls however they identify. Trans identified girls were specifically included within the old policy due to their sex.......

There is a lot of noise on social media but the numbers are extremely low compared with our total number of volunteers. Those of us who value the girls only space contine to keep our heads down to avoid the abuse. I am thinking of how to phrase a positive email to HQ.

Yes. It’s not trans exclusionary….just excludes boys.

TiF don't count unless they can be leveraged to forward the interests of weird men.