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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Scottish Government win review for the right to place men in women's prisons

189 replies

ArabellaSaurus · 06/11/2025 12:07

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/snp-court-battle-to-allow-trans-women-in-female-prisons-rpn2dff79

https://archive.ph/Dw1Wl

'SNP ministers are to fight in court to defend the right of biologically male criminals who identify as women to serve sentences in female jails.
A KC representing the Scottish government told a judge at the Court of Session in Edinburgh on Wednesday that self-ID policies in jails will remain a “live issue” in a new legal case, suggesting ministers are determined to keep them in place'

'Gerry Moynihan KC, representing the Scottish government, confirmed that controversial schools guidance, which allowed trans girls into female facilities and for biological boys to compete in female sports, had been “withdrawn”.

However, he confirmed that the Scottish government did not plan to back down on its prisons policy, which was rewritten after <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/Dw1Wl/www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/nicola-sturgeon-trans-women-isla-bryson-77g8zzbll" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Isla Bryson scandal but still allows male-born criminals to serve sentences in women’s jails if they say they identify as female.'.

'For Women Scotland had wanted their bid to have the schools and prisons policies “reduced”, meaning quashed by the courts, to be conducted under an “ordinary” procedure, which it was hoped would be quicker, cheaper and more straightforward than a judicial review.
However, Moynihan successfully argued that the case should instead proceed under the more complex route, a move likely to lead to increased costs for taxpayers'
...
'A timetable will be set in the coming weeks with a substantive hearing to decide matters expected to last two days.'

SNP court battle to allow trans women in female prisons

The Scottish government refuses to back down on its jails policy and has secured a review in the Court of Session, meaning a longer legal battle over the issue

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/snp-court-battle-to-allow-trans-women-in-female-prisons-rpn2dff79

OP posts:
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7
guinnessguzzler · 07/11/2025 06:34

Deafnotdumb · 06/11/2025 21:07

They are on a hiding to nowhere after the Isla Bryson debacle. I really ender who is pushing this and how it got signed off.

Agree completely, the public simply won't stand for it. I am so grateful to the photographer who took the infamous 'pink leggings' picture and the newspaper who first published it. It was an absolute game-changer and I really don't believe there's any going back from it. Regardless of your stance on this issue, this is a massive political mistake from the SNP and will only bring them what they deserve. Fuckwits.

SammyScrounge · 07/11/2025 04:03

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 06/11/2025 13:39

I wonder why Scotland made this subject their hill to die on. It’s interesting.

Edited

Scotland didn't. The SNP, led by Sturgeon, have been tangled up in gender politics for years, utterly determined to foist their agenda on Scots.

Needspaceforlego · 07/11/2025 03:27

Igneococcus · 06/11/2025 20:46

Maybe John Swinney had a look at the polls and thought "bloody hell, I simply can't face another 5 years in government, how do I get out of this without the Nationalists going berserk? Ooh, hang on, I know what I do, I do the stupidest thing any politician has every done, I bring a court case to allow men, including convicted rapists, being put into women's prison, nobody sane will vote for the SNP after that."

I think they want out of goverment.
Tory are never going to win in Scotland.
Labour aren't exactly popular right now.

Are we going to end up with Reform?

GehenSieweiter · 07/11/2025 03:17

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 06/11/2025 13:39

I wonder why Scotland made this subject their hill to die on. It’s interesting.

Edited

'Scotland' hasn't, the pathetic SNP have. They're losing popularity, thankfully.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 07/11/2025 03:14

Mochudubh · 06/11/2025 21:00

I'm probably being obtuse, but wasn't the SC judgement meant to put a stop to this sort of thing?

The Equality Act doesn't oblige prisons to offer single-sex accommodation. It doesn't oblige single-sex services, it only permits them. The single-sex loos in schools requirement is not in EA either, it's in the Schools Premises (England) Regulations 2010 for England, not sure where for the devolved nations.

And yes, it's batshit that this is the case. Elizabeth Fry would not be pleased.

Unrelated: someone liking one of my posts has named herself after the Irish-Scouse public health shero Kitty Wilkinson. I approve.

Gymnopedie · 06/11/2025 23:45

We know from Sandie's tribunal that there are well read sections of the Scottish press that are definitely not captured by TWAW. I hope they go to town on it - and keep printing the photos of IB to go with it.

PeonyPatch · 06/11/2025 22:41

This is bullshit.

Toseland · 06/11/2025 22:39

Surely it's against the Geneva convention and the Supreme Court ruling?

nauticant · 06/11/2025 22:12

ArabellaSaurus · 06/11/2025 21:27

But who are they signalling to?

I honestly don't know. Some imaginary large constituency with insane views.

But to return to my question, what would winning look like for SG?

RoostingHens · 06/11/2025 22:08

Sounds like a great idea to have headlines about how the SNP Government are going to court to put male rapists In women’s prisons - in the run up to the Scottish elections.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 06/11/2025 22:03

Waitwhat23 · 06/11/2025 21:28

Lucy Hunter Blackburn (of MBM) probably put it best on Twitter -

'I think it's just because the relevant Ministers and SpAds are petulant, resentful, childish bad losers who are hoping to run FWS in to the ground financially before they have to pay them the costs awarded by the Supreme Court.'

jesus

oh how i love it when elected politicians behave like fucking crooks

and these loons will also think they're the good guys

EasternStandard · 06/11/2025 21:59

Mochudubh · 06/11/2025 21:00

I'm probably being obtuse, but wasn't the SC judgement meant to put a stop to this sort of thing?

Same question

RoostingHens · 06/11/2025 21:51

Apollo441 · 06/11/2025 21:44

Don't FWS have a rich friend who could bridge them the money rather than folding?

Edited

Your confusing them with TRA organisations and the millions they receive from governments, businesses and the likes of the Priztker family.

Fortunately FWS have the support of thousands of ordinary women willing to donate what they can afford.

Apollo441 · 06/11/2025 21:44

Waitwhat23 · 06/11/2025 21:28

Lucy Hunter Blackburn (of MBM) probably put it best on Twitter -

'I think it's just because the relevant Ministers and SpAds are petulant, resentful, childish bad losers who are hoping to run FWS in to the ground financially before they have to pay them the costs awarded by the Supreme Court.'

Don't FWS have a rich friend who could bridge them the money rather than folding?

RoostingHens · 06/11/2025 21:35

I believe they still owe FWS their costs from the SC case.

Edited as I see that point has made.

Waitwhat23 · 06/11/2025 21:28

Lucy Hunter Blackburn (of MBM) probably put it best on Twitter -

'I think it's just because the relevant Ministers and SpAds are petulant, resentful, childish bad losers who are hoping to run FWS in to the ground financially before they have to pay them the costs awarded by the Supreme Court.'

ArabellaSaurus · 06/11/2025 21:27

nauticant · 06/11/2025 21:13

What I don't get is what they think will be the result for them if they win. It makes me wonder whether that's not their plan and they're actually thinking they'll lose while signalling they tried everything they could to uphold the ideology, without ending up with Isla Brysons all over the shop. Just me and my tinfoil hat, but there was something with a similar theme posted upthread:

Scotgov's usual impetus is to do something to allow them to blame Westminster and/or complain 'help! Help! I'm being oppressed!'.

But who are they signalling to?

OP posts:
ArabellaSaurus · 06/11/2025 21:26

Waitwhat23 · 06/11/2025 21:20

The Scottish Government still haven't paid FWS the court costs (£600,00) that they were ordered to pay when they lost the case.

I assume the Scottish Government's plan is to continue to ignore the law, force women's groups to raise legal challenges, lose them, and then refuse to pay the costs. Or implement what they've been told to implement.

Rinse and repeat. With public money.

They think they are above the law. Theyve shown this over and over.

OP posts:
Thelnebriati · 06/11/2025 21:21

AFAIR the 'let them in' movement started in the 1990's with women's centres.

Waitwhat23 · 06/11/2025 21:20

Contemporaneouslyagog · 06/11/2025 20:49

who is going to fight the Scottish government on this?

The Scottish Government still haven't paid FWS the court costs (£600,00) that they were ordered to pay when they lost the case.

I assume the Scottish Government's plan is to continue to ignore the law, force women's groups to raise legal challenges, lose them, and then refuse to pay the costs. Or implement what they've been told to implement.

Rinse and repeat. With public money.

nauticant · 06/11/2025 21:13

What I don't get is what they think will be the result for them if they win. It makes me wonder whether that's not their plan and they're actually thinking they'll lose while signalling they tried everything they could to uphold the ideology, without ending up with Isla Brysons all over the shop. Just me and my tinfoil hat, but there was something with a similar theme posted upthread:

Scotgov's usual impetus is to do something to allow them to blame Westminster and/or complain 'help! Help! I'm being oppressed!'.

DuesToTheDirt · 06/11/2025 21:09

Heggettypeg · 06/11/2025 20:59

Me neither.
Some women really hate women, don't they.

Maybe "James" was trying to prove her manliness by shitting on other women.

CohensDiamondTeeth · 06/11/2025 21:09

Ffs! 😡

Angry Fire GIF by PBS Digital Studios
Deafnotdumb · 06/11/2025 21:07

They are on a hiding to nowhere after the Isla Bryson debacle. I really ender who is pushing this and how it got signed off.

Mochudubh · 06/11/2025 21:00

I'm probably being obtuse, but wasn't the SC judgement meant to put a stop to this sort of thing?

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