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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Scottish Government win review for the right to place men in women's prisons

189 replies

ArabellaSaurus · 06/11/2025 12:07

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/snp-court-battle-to-allow-trans-women-in-female-prisons-rpn2dff79

https://archive.ph/Dw1Wl

'SNP ministers are to fight in court to defend the right of biologically male criminals who identify as women to serve sentences in female jails.
A KC representing the Scottish government told a judge at the Court of Session in Edinburgh on Wednesday that self-ID policies in jails will remain a “live issue” in a new legal case, suggesting ministers are determined to keep them in place'

'Gerry Moynihan KC, representing the Scottish government, confirmed that controversial schools guidance, which allowed trans girls into female facilities and for biological boys to compete in female sports, had been “withdrawn”.

However, he confirmed that the Scottish government did not plan to back down on its prisons policy, which was rewritten after <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/Dw1Wl/www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/nicola-sturgeon-trans-women-isla-bryson-77g8zzbll" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Isla Bryson scandal but still allows male-born criminals to serve sentences in women’s jails if they say they identify as female.'.

'For Women Scotland had wanted their bid to have the schools and prisons policies “reduced”, meaning quashed by the courts, to be conducted under an “ordinary” procedure, which it was hoped would be quicker, cheaper and more straightforward than a judicial review.
However, Moynihan successfully argued that the case should instead proceed under the more complex route, a move likely to lead to increased costs for taxpayers'
...
'A timetable will be set in the coming weeks with a substantive hearing to decide matters expected to last two days.'

SNP court battle to allow trans women in female prisons

The Scottish government refuses to back down on its jails policy and has secured a review in the Court of Session, meaning a longer legal battle over the issue

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/snp-court-battle-to-allow-trans-women-in-female-prisons-rpn2dff79

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Teathecolourofcreosote · 10/11/2025 22:22

Perhaps he really doesn't want to be first minister anymore but doesn't want to be accused of dropping the party in the shit because the rest of them are mad.

So he's looked at how Nicola came undone and thought 'I'll have a bit of that '.

Or more realistically he's the type who has gotten so used to the 'right' view and the easy woke points it gets you that he hasn't given much real thought to the issues at all other than 'JKR bad (must be, she's a Unionist) do the opposite '

Igneococcus · 10/11/2025 21:32

BundleBoogie · 10/11/2025 21:27

Thanks for the share. I can’t understand what’s wrong with him.

What is driving him to ignore the information he’s being given? He’s ignoring the law and preparing to challenge it somehow even though it doesn’t seem like he’s got a leg to stand on.

There must be more to his stance than meets the eye.

I'm as baffled by it as you are. It's incomprehensible.

BundleBoogie · 10/11/2025 21:27

Thanks for the share. I can’t understand what’s wrong with him.

What is driving him to ignore the information he’s being given? He’s ignoring the law and preparing to challenge it somehow even though it doesn’t seem like he’s got a leg to stand on.

There must be more to his stance than meets the eye.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 10/11/2025 19:59

Igneococcus · 10/11/2025 18:46

Thanks for the link, it's about time the press started calling these politicians on their bullshit.

Contemporaneouslyagog · 09/11/2025 18:14

They're unbelievable

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 09/11/2025 11:51

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

DuesToTheDirt · 09/11/2025 11:36

So he's been asked and can't come up with a good answer.

ArabellaSaurus · 09/11/2025 10:25

https://archive.ph/lSw86

It's a comment piece.

'Swinney’s self-enforced silence
Swinney chose to remain silent when asked about the court case. “That’s a live legal case, I won’t be commenting on live legal cases,” he said through gritted teeth on Thursday, insinuating that he was restricted by law.
Nonsense. For Women Scotland’s case is not a criminal matter, it’s in a civil court and there is no legal reason why the First Minister cannot tell the country why his government is defending the right of biological males to be housed in women’s prisons.
Perhaps his self-enforced silence is evidence that even he is beginning to realise that he cannot justify sacrificing the welfare of vulnerable women for the sake of a long-discredited policy – one that brought down his close friend and colleague Nicola Sturgeon. We can but hope.
A question of values
In the same social media post to mark Interfaith Week where Swinney wrote of his Christian faith, he preaches of the need to bring our society closer together, to hear each other and to listen with care to each other.
He boasts that the values of respect and understanding are those that underpin his administration. It was a masterclass in couthiness that Robert Burns would have relished for its satirical opportunities.
Meanwhile, more than 300 of Scotland’s most vulnerable women are prisoners of Swinney’s political dogma, trapped in jails where their human rights matter less than the demands of men who masquerade as women. What respect, what understanding, do these women get from you First Minister? Or do your Christian values not extend to women with no voice'

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DuesToTheDirt · 09/11/2025 10:19

I can't read the Scotsman article - is he interviewed? Does he say why the hell he wants this?

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selffellatingouroborosofhate · 08/11/2025 19:50

BundleBoogie · 08/11/2025 08:32

I think there’s been a few - Dawn Butler pops into my head but that maybe because of her insistence that babies are born without a sex which is kind of against the whole concept of trans so I’m not sure.

Yes. Dawn Butler and some of her staff went on a trip to LA, paid by for by GLAAD. It cost over £14k. https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20180522/282308205762782

I love how FWR's collective long-term memory prevents these conflicts of interest from being overlooked.

PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions

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https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20180522/282308205762782

DuesToTheDirt · 08/11/2025 17:58

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 07/11/2025 20:38

This is a really important comparison.
I read that story about Harkins with my jaw on the floor. The police should be ashamed of themselves, but instead they're finding it "difficult" to apologise to the women victims!!! Instead they point to the success of the court case, which was only started because of one of the female victims went to the media, not the police. But, if a man thinks a woman has so much as touched the speshul man's brolly, she can expect the full force of the law on her head.
Disgusting, infuriating. What a broken society we live in.

Yes, the Harkins story is shocking on so many levels. The police, who ignored concrete evidence from several women on several occasions, are basically saying, Oh well, never mind, we would deal with it better now.

Given the large number of similar stories of endemic bias in the police against women, I find this difficult to believe.

ArabellaSaurus · 08/11/2025 11:18

BundleBoogie · 08/11/2025 08:32

I think there’s been a few - Dawn Butler pops into my head but that maybe because of her insistence that babies are born without a sex which is kind of against the whole concept of trans so I’m not sure.

Didn't Streeting get at least one donation? Dont quote me! Just trying to recall.

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ArabellaSaurus · 08/11/2025 11:16

CarobBean72 · 07/11/2025 22:46

Anecdotally, I’ve heard of a couple of such cases.

One was in Scotland & the woman was removed for her own safety.

One I believe was in England & the woman had campaigned for it. It did not go well for her.

There was one female recorded in a mens prison in Scotland a few years back, I remember seeing it in published figures before they decided not to ever publish them again.

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BundleBoogie · 08/11/2025 08:32

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 08/11/2025 03:15

Dammit, who was the Labour MP who got some junket and then went hard TWAW?

I think there’s been a few - Dawn Butler pops into my head but that maybe because of her insistence that babies are born without a sex which is kind of against the whole concept of trans so I’m not sure.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 08/11/2025 03:15

BundleBoogie · 07/11/2025 22:21

You’re welcome - it is quite a lot isn’t it!

A number of individual Labour MPs have allegedly received a number of smaller (but adding up to quite a bit) donations from individuals associated with trans organisations in their own names as I remember. All under the radar. Someone was looking into it a couple of years ago.

Dammit, who was the Labour MP who got some junket and then went hard TWAW?

Waitwhat23 · 07/11/2025 23:01

ArabellaSaurus · 07/11/2025 21:54

But it's not that much money!

And that was six years ago!

Was more making the point for lurkers who weren't aware of such donations and is one that was reported in the Times so can be easily cross checked by said lurkers.

CarobBean72 · 07/11/2025 22:46

ArabellaSaurus · 06/11/2025 14:28

As far as I know, there are zero women in men's prisons in Scotland, or in fact the UK.

Anecdotally, I’ve heard of a couple of such cases.

One was in Scotland & the woman was removed for her own safety.

One I believe was in England & the woman had campaigned for it. It did not go well for her.

Teathecolourofcreosote · 07/11/2025 22:43

Deafnotdumb · 06/11/2025 21:07

They are on a hiding to nowhere after the Isla Bryson debacle. I really ender who is pushing this and how it got signed off.

I still wonder if quite so many people would have been peaked by that without his rather questionable choice of leggings and an excellent picture from a photographer.

Too many people still think this means people who have had a full op and been living as women for years. Then you get the 'oh but it must be hard for them'.

They don't see the chancers or the abusers or the absolute nutters. Who was the one who used to bite his own veins.

They are utterly mad to think this won't open the eyes of the public who have been previously in the 'be kind' group. Unless they are actively wanting such a massive backlash it makes this all go away without the SNP having to tell them to sod off or give up their lefty credentials.

Northquit · 07/11/2025 22:24

What rules allow them to be such utterly disgusting arses

BundleBoogie · 07/11/2025 22:21

You’re welcome - it is quite a lot isn’t it!

A number of individual Labour MPs have allegedly received a number of smaller (but adding up to quite a bit) donations from individuals associated with trans organisations in their own names as I remember. All under the radar. Someone was looking into it a couple of years ago.

ArabellaSaurus · 07/11/2025 22:16

It does, thanks Bundle! Thats a bit more money.

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