Page 4 | Europe must not erase sex - We must resist the imposition of activist fantasies

IwantToRetire · 2025-10-30T01:56:37+00:00

^When, in mid-October, MPs from the broad left-wing bloc Nouveau Front Populaire tabled a proposal in the French Parliament to remove sex from national identity cards, they prefaced it with an explanation: having one’s sex recorded on identity documents, they claimed, is bad for equality, bad for women, and especially bad for those who identify as transgender. “It is common for an individual’s appearance not to correspond to the stereotypes associated with the sex recorded on their official papers,” they argued, followed by a non sequitur of the highest order: that sex itself is an outdated stereotype.^ ^Feminist discussion groups exploded. One woman asked, “What happened to the French? Have they gone mad?” Truth be told, the same question could be asked of many nations today: have the Irish, Portuguese, Belgians, Germans and others gone mad? And if they have not, what explains why legislators across so many states are suddenly deciding that biological sex — not only a basic fact of human reproduction but a cornerstone of equality and non-discrimination law — is a relic of the past to be discarded like phrenology or geocentrism?^ ^The almost 70 left-wing MPs who backed the proposal in the French National Assembly also claimed that, unlike a person’s height — also recorded on ID cards — recording a person’s sex is not in line with international human rights standards set by the United Nations, the Council of Europe and the European Union. Considering recent developments in these institutions, it seems, at least on the surface, difficult to argue against that claim.^ Article continues at [[https://thecritic.co.uk/europe-must-not-erase-sex https://thecritic.co.uk/europe-must-not-erase-sex/]]

Grammarnut · 30/10/2025 08:59

Helleofabore · 30/10/2025 08:50

This is another great live demonstration of activist’s fantasies.

I am very thankful for Faika El-Nagashi and I look forward to more from the Athena Forum team.

I wish it wasn't called after Athena, though, that champion of misogyny who rules in favour of acquitting Orestes of matricide because mothers have no part in making the child (i.e. they are men's rent-a-wombs). The Erinyes had it right on that one (unfortunately they are also called the Kindly Ones, mind you, they were not).
But all power to Faika El-Nagashi's elbow!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/10/2025 08:58

Igneococcus · 30/10/2025 06:55

Have you only just discovered Howses' little pearls of wisdom? You're in for a treat :)

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If a treat for you is repeatedly banging your head against a wall.

Helleofabore · 30/10/2025 08:56

Here is the interview Faika did with Menno this weekend.

Grammarnut · 30/10/2025 08:55

Bull shit, @Howseitgoin . Sophisticated BS, where sophisticated has it's original meaning of shallow, without moral compass: think Mary Crawford in Mansfield Park. Unless you were being ironic? Didn't think so.

JellySaurus · 30/10/2025 08:52

About 35y ago there were horrific race-related riots in the Paris banlieus. I was living in central Paris at the time, and I remember my French landlady and flatmates being utterly confused by this. They had been certain that France had no racial inequalities because of Liberté, Fraternité, Égalité. There had been no evidence (as far as they were aware) of racial problems brewing, because no statistics were gathered. No statistics were gathered about race because pointing out that people were different was irrelevant when they all had Liberté, Fraternité, Égalité, and would ‘other’ them, which would be contrary to the principle of Liberté, Fraternité, Égalité.

I’m not suggesting that people’s race should be recorded on ID documentation. I’m pointing out that the French have already seen the consequence of ignoring material reality when it does not fit in with their philosophy.

Helleofabore · 30/10/2025 08:50

This is another great live demonstration of activist’s fantasies.

I am very thankful for Faika El-Nagashi and I look forward to more from the Athena Forum team.

JazzyJelly · 30/10/2025 08:49

Thank God for TERF island. I'm a big fan of the European Union, but this may be the first positive I've seen for Brexit.

OldCrone · 30/10/2025 08:47

Howseitgoin · 30/10/2025 08:31

Because sex is also a proxy to identity of which they don't identify with.

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Sex is simply a biological description. No more, no less.

It says nothing about personality or 'identifying with' anything..

borntobequiet · 30/10/2025 08:46

OldCrone · 30/10/2025 08:44

I did not "claim lesbians don't exist because of evolutionary biology". I pointed out that your assertion that we all perform gender stereotypes to attract the opposite sex was denying the existence of lesbians and gender nonconforming women. (And also denies the existence of gay men.)

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The routine wilful misinterpretation/misrepresentation of others’ arguments is quite remarkable.

Helleofabore · 30/10/2025 08:45

Howseitgoin · 30/10/2025 08:29

The sexes sharing personality traits means they can share more common gendered inclinations hence they can have similar or same experiences.

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Shared personality traits are not a reliable categorisation tool in any way.

And it is not possible that a male person can have a same experience as a female person at all.

OldCrone · 30/10/2025 08:45

Howseitgoin · 30/10/2025 08:29

The sexes sharing personality traits means they can share more common gendered inclinations hence they can have similar or same experiences.

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So are you now agreeing that personality is not dependent on sex?

You'll be agreeing that gender stereotypes are regressive nonsense next.

HousePlantEmergency · 30/10/2025 08:45

No, we don't distinguish on sight by gametes, silly billy 🙄

By 9 months, infants can distinguish between male and female faces.

Women and girls in particular are exceptionally good at instinctively distinguishing between males and females using a variety of cues, including but not limited to, structure of facial features, movement and gait, and body shape and composition.

I can certainly scan who is walking towards me from some distance, whether it is a man or a woman. This has no doubt been heightened further following the 3 times I have been physically attacked by men.
The fact that this body may be wearing high heels, has long hair, or fake tits bolted on, is utterly irrelevant.

I know it might be difficult for a man to understand, but women's and girls lives have depended upon our ability to make these distinctions. For hundreds of thousand of years. That's how long we have been on alert to try and stay safe from men who want to hurt us.
Being able to make these distinctions quickly and accurately is extremely important for women and girls.

But you don't give a fuck about them, so it's pretty fruitless for anyone to try and explain this to you.

OldCrone · 30/10/2025 08:44

Howseitgoin · 30/10/2025 08:26

You made the claim lesbians don't exist because of evolutionary biology, I clarified why they do because of it.

Typical associations & stereotypes are socially constructed as a result of biological inclinations being expressed.

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I did not "claim lesbians don't exist because of evolutionary biology". I pointed out that your assertion that we all perform gender stereotypes to attract the opposite sex was denying the existence of lesbians and gender nonconforming women. (And also denies the existence of gay men.)

helluvatime · 30/10/2025 08:43

Howseitgoin · 30/10/2025 08:31

Because sex is also a proxy to identity of which they don't identify with.

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It doesn't matter that they don't identify with it. It still exists. If they don't want it mentioned, they ARE denying the reality of sex.

TheKeatingFive · 30/10/2025 08:40

borntobequiet · 30/10/2025 08:33

Sex is a proxy

Oh do give over.

The incels will pretend to believe absolutely any old guff if it gives them a stick to beat women with.

TheKeatingFive · 30/10/2025 08:39

ScarlettSunset · 30/10/2025 07:45

Could somebody please provide a comprehensive list of these gendered social categorisations? And the inclinations? I need to know all the ways I'm womaning incorrectly....

I believe this has been requested before, to no avail ...

Myalternate · 30/10/2025 08:36

Men who think they’re women think they’re thinking just like a women because they don’t think they’re men but their thinking is flawed because to think like a women they need to be a woman in the first place.

borntobequiet · 30/10/2025 08:33

Sex is a proxy

Oh do give over.

EmmyFr · 30/10/2025 08:33

Howseitgoin · 30/10/2025 07:50

Again, you tell us how you do it in practice…

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That's the whole point. I can't tell you how I'm womaning in practice as I don't need to do anything other than be: I am a human, female, aged 39. None of these things are the result of any action of mine. They still make me a woman. There's no "practice" Of woman

Howseitgoin · 30/10/2025 08:31

helluvatime · 30/10/2025 08:21

The thing is trans people aren't denying the biological reality of sex. And they also aren't denying the socially gendered reality.
If they are not denying the biological reality of sex (and actually lots of them are) what's the problem with having correct sex markers on ID?

Because sex is also a proxy to identity of which they don't identify with.

Greyskybluesky · 30/10/2025 08:30

Thanks for your post @IwantToRetire

I found it an interesting read, before the inevitable happened

Howseitgoin · 30/10/2025 08:29

Helleofabore · 30/10/2025 08:19

It seems we need a reminder on every thread of this topic :

No male can ever experience life as a woman. They can only ever experience life as a male person who believes they are a woman.

Even when they 'act' like a woman, they are acting as they believe a 'woman' should act. Which is fucking misogynistic!

Even if they are treated 'as a woman' by some people, they are being treated as a 'male who presents as a woman and believes they are a woman'. Because their every reaction is based on that. Not on them being female in any way.

Even when they have extreme body modifications, it is to be their own concept of what a female looks like to them. It is not what a female is.

How can it be?

The only way a person can experience life as a woman, is to have a female body, formed around the production of large gametes, (regardless of if that body produces those gametes) even if it doesn't produce those and to navigate their life based on the decisions they and society makes that revolve around them having that body.

A male can conceptualise what it might be like to be a female, but that is all it ever is - their concept of being female.

They may do it because they don't feel they fit into how they conceptualise how a male person interacts with the world (ie. their own stereotypes around being male) or they do it because they want to be seen as a female (using their own stereotypes of how a female navigates life). It really doesn't matter though. Their motivation is irrelevant to the outcome.

Which is that they will always be just a male who believes they are something they are objectively not.

How can the material reality be any different? This is why someone's gender is only based on someone's philosophical belief. And philosophical beliefs are fine for people to hold, but not one person in the UK has to comply with another's philosophical belief.

The logic cannot be any different than that I am afraid.

The sexes sharing personality traits means they can share more common gendered inclinations hence they can have similar or same experiences.

Howseitgoin · 30/10/2025 08:26

OldCrone · 30/10/2025 08:14

Gender stereotypes aren't biological. They're culturally constructed.

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You made the claim lesbians don't exist because of evolutionary biology, I clarified why they do because of it.

Typical associations & stereotypes are socially constructed as a result of biological inclinations being expressed.

SquirrelosaurusSoShiny · 30/10/2025 08:23

Helleofabore · 30/10/2025 08:19

It seems we need a reminder on every thread of this topic :

No male can ever experience life as a woman. They can only ever experience life as a male person who believes they are a woman.

Even when they 'act' like a woman, they are acting as they believe a 'woman' should act. Which is fucking misogynistic!

Even if they are treated 'as a woman' by some people, they are being treated as a 'male who presents as a woman and believes they are a woman'. Because their every reaction is based on that. Not on them being female in any way.

Even when they have extreme body modifications, it is to be their own concept of what a female looks like to them. It is not what a female is.

How can it be?

The only way a person can experience life as a woman, is to have a female body, formed around the production of large gametes, (regardless of if that body produces those gametes) even if it doesn't produce those and to navigate their life based on the decisions they and society makes that revolve around them having that body.

A male can conceptualise what it might be like to be a female, but that is all it ever is - their concept of being female.

They may do it because they don't feel they fit into how they conceptualise how a male person interacts with the world (ie. their own stereotypes around being male) or they do it because they want to be seen as a female (using their own stereotypes of how a female navigates life). It really doesn't matter though. Their motivation is irrelevant to the outcome.

Which is that they will always be just a male who believes they are something they are objectively not.

How can the material reality be any different? This is why someone's gender is only based on someone's philosophical belief. And philosophical beliefs are fine for people to hold, but not one person in the UK has to comply with another's philosophical belief.

The logic cannot be any different than that I am afraid.

Might just keep reposting this over and over.

helluvatime · 30/10/2025 08:21

The thing is trans people aren't denying the biological reality of sex. And they also aren't denying the socially gendered reality.
If they are not denying the biological reality of sex (and actually lots of them are) what's the problem with having correct sex markers on ID?