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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Leading journal accused of abandoning science over ‘social justice agenda’

136 replies

IwantToRetire · 27/10/2025 17:45

A top journal publisher has been accused of abandoning science in favour of a “social justice agenda”.

Nature, which produces several leading science journals, has faced criticism over its position on equality, diversity and inclusion from leading scientists.

Prof Anna Krylov, a professor of chemistry at the University of Southern California, shared an open letter online encouraging fellow scientists to boycott Nature until it “recommits to scientific excellence”.

She said: “The Nature group has abandoned its mission in favour of advancing a social justice agenda.”

She accused it of trying to play identity politics and promote specific demographics instead of focusing on science, which is supposed to be “guided by a commitment to finding objective truth”.

The letter was backed by Prof Richard Dawkins, an expert in evolutionary biology, who said on X: “Nature used to be the world’s most prestigious science journal. Now it’s one of many accused of favouring authors because of their identity group rather than the excellence and importance of their science.”

Full article at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/10/26/bbc-allows-work-from-home-if-worried-about-trans-toilet/

And at https://archive.is/q5JlX

OP posts:
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moto748e · 27/10/2025 23:32

Never let the facts...

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 27/10/2025 23:32

Howseitgoin · 27/10/2025 21:21

Atheism has lost favour with the racist New Right given Christianity being more of a proxy for whiteness in terms of immigration.

It may not seem like it but RD is being consistent….

Have you noticed the number of predominantly black churches in the UK?

moto748e · 27/10/2025 23:31

It's worrying, though, isn't it? Seems harder and harder to find the simple facts of a situation these days. Sources that were considered authorative, and you would have accepted without question, now seem dubious.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 27/10/2025 23:30

Swiftasthewind · 27/10/2025 21:18

I’m not surprised to see accusations of Islamophobia laid at the feet of Richard Dawkins, hasn’t he recently gone on some sort of crusade defending Christianity all of a sudden? A strange angle if true, considering the damage Christianity has done to women in the west far exceeds that of Islam, which as I understand it is relatively progressive on women’s rights for an Abrahamic based faith.

!

You might want to consider damage done to women in the east as well as the west. And also perhaps look at Nigeria, for example, if you want to compare damage.

Howseitgoin · 27/10/2025 22:25

This reply has been deleted

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99bottlesofkombucha · 27/10/2025 22:24

Howseitgoin · 27/10/2025 22:20

Lol, are you seriously suggesting that there aren't within the reproductive system multiple traits, with variable distributions? IE individuals may possess different combinations of chromosome type, gamete size, hormone level, morphology, and social roles, which do not always align in 'female- and male'-specific ways?

Of course RD correctly assumed gender criticals were either too stupid or too confronted to understand anything beyond oversimplifications & ran with it.
Gotta hand it to him, he knows a useful idiot when he sees one…

Please no one respond to this tripe.

the lancet should be next. I am never going to get over being a ‘body with a vagina’ to their editors. Unfortunately for them, women actually aren’t all corpses with female parts and we have long memories.

Howseitgoin · 27/10/2025 22:20

SinnerBoy · 27/10/2025 22:04

Howseitgoin · Today 21:40

Sex being bi/multi modal isn't in least scientifically controversial so no you don't in the way you think

Ah now. A piece of undefined, fact free philosophical wibbling is uncontroversial scientifically, especially on the grounds that it has no basis in science.

Lol, are you seriously suggesting that there aren't within the reproductive system multiple traits, with variable distributions? IE individuals may possess different combinations of chromosome type, gamete size, hormone level, morphology, and social roles, which do not always align in 'female- and male'-specific ways?

Of course RD correctly assumed gender criticals were either too stupid or too confronted to understand anything beyond oversimplifications & ran with it.
Gotta hand it to him, he knows a useful idiot when he sees one…

SinnerBoy · 27/10/2025 22:04

Howseitgoin · Today 21:40

Sex being bi/multi modal isn't in least scientifically controversial so no you don't in the way you think

Ah now. A piece of undefined, fact free philosophical wibbling is uncontroversial scientifically, especially on the grounds that it has no basis in science.

moto748e · 27/10/2025 22:03

SidewaysOtter · 27/10/2025 21:59

I’m not sure we ever had one. Oh wait, is it that thing we’ve been using to prop the door open? None of us knew what it was...

That wasn't the purity spiral, it's the auger of discontent. 😀

SidewaysOtter · 27/10/2025 21:59

CassOle · 27/10/2025 21:13

I think the FWR purity spiral function is broken. To Howse's eternal chagrin, the posters here don't perform that function correctly, even with the best mansplaining available to help them.

I’m not sure we ever had one. Oh wait, is it that thing we’ve been using to prop the door open? None of us knew what it was...

SinnerBoy · 27/10/2025 21:57

Igneococcus · 27/10/2025 21:30

No, I think he really is that dim.

As Granny would say,

"Ach, but his brain's recilin' in a bath chair.

moto748e · 27/10/2025 21:54

This is about facts, not belief. When RD speaks on science, on his field of expertise, only a fool would argue with him. He can, and does, have opinions on all kinds of topics that people may or may not agree with. So what? Either way, facts are facts.

SinnerBoy · 27/10/2025 21:54

Howseitgoin · 27/10/2025 21:18

You don't get to exploit the mantle of feminism others built & then shit on it. That you & your hypocritical fellow travellers personally don't care isn't lost on rational people….

Quite. But it is on you.

CassOle · 27/10/2025 21:51

IwantToRetire · 27/10/2025 21:31

Quite honestly its irrelevant.

If any of someones beliefs impacted on their ability to carry out their actual work or research, then it would matter.

How many of us have benefited because some men have invented tools, medicine or even music that we like but are absolute shits.

The point of the article in the OP is about how supposed professionals have let their belief systems warp or corrupt their work.

I think we need a new catergory of posts. The bee in the bonnet threads. For all those who come on threads and whatever they are meant to be about constantly stopped actual discussion to go over and over their particular obsession.

I suspect even the sainted JKR could have accusations against her.

This isn't a forum about creating heros or heroines we follow unquestioningly.

It is about all the issues that impact on women and women's lives.

I am beginning to doubt it is possible to have a straight forward discussion, including differences of opinion, but enlarging or informing on the issue or topic of the OP of that thread.

Once I have finished 'Climbing Mount Improbable' (the toad in the photo will be familiar to those who have read it), I will read 'The War on Science.' The latter book is pertinent to your OP.

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Leading journal accused of abandoning science over ‘social justice agenda’
Igneococcus · 27/10/2025 21:49

IwantToRetire · 27/10/2025 21:44

Well I cant stop anyone, and even politely request, but get frustrated that in depth discussions or thread development dont happen because of whatabouterry.

I'm suggesting this rather than deliberate highjacking.

I remember, or maybe wrongly, that FWR could be really long, but raised issues and ideas from the starting point of the OP. Rather than, niggle, niggle.

No, you're right and I will try my best to avoid it in future.

Howseitgoin · 27/10/2025 21:48

IwantToRetire · 27/10/2025 21:31

Quite honestly its irrelevant.

If any of someones beliefs impacted on their ability to carry out their actual work or research, then it would matter.

How many of us have benefited because some men have invented tools, medicine or even music that we like but are absolute shits.

The point of the article in the OP is about how supposed professionals have let their belief systems warp or corrupt their work.

I think we need a new catergory of posts. The bee in the bonnet threads. For all those who come on threads and whatever they are meant to be about constantly stopped actual discussion to go over and over their particular obsession.

I suspect even the sainted JKR could have accusations against her.

This isn't a forum about creating heros or heroines we follow unquestioningly.

It is about all the issues that impact on women and women's lives.

I am beginning to doubt it is possible to have a straight forward discussion, including differences of opinion, but enlarging or informing on the issue or topic of the OP of that thread.

"The point of the article in the OP is about how supposed professionals have let their belief systems warp or corrupt their work."

But you used Richard Dawkins to make this point who has let his belief system exploit his scientific achievements.

Do you not see the hypocrisy here?

In fact RD who knows better because of his scientific achievements in biology knows full well the the critique of 'sex being binary' isn't about denying the binary nature of the reproductive system but that within it has the capacity to produce sex ambiguity in outcomes. IE he's lying & he knows it AND he's using his credentials to do it.

Perhaps next time if you want to make a point about the corruption of scientific journals don't use someone who is guilty of doing it too to support your argument?

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 27/10/2025 21:48

IwantToRetire · 27/10/2025 21:44

Well I cant stop anyone, and even politely request, but get frustrated that in depth discussions or thread development dont happen because of whatabouterry.

I'm suggesting this rather than deliberate highjacking.

I remember, or maybe wrongly, that FWR could be really long, but raised issues and ideas from the starting point of the OP. Rather than, niggle, niggle.

It’s like having a phone call, or even visitors, with a toddler in the room. One of mine in particular couldn’t allow conversation that wasn’t with or focused on them. They would cartwheel in the middle of the room, climb up on laps, pinch my cheeks, anything to get me to stop listening to and looking at someone else, and just focus on them.

JanesLittleGirl · 27/10/2025 21:47

Howseitgoin · 27/10/2025 21:40

Sex being bi/multi modal isn't in least scientifically controversial so no you don't in the way you think

You know just as well as I do that that is rubbish but I will respect the OP's request, stop playing pigeon chess and leave you with a heartfelt ODFOD.

IwantToRetire · 27/10/2025 21:44

Igneococcus · 27/10/2025 21:34

We actually have science (if not Nature) on our side, but I will respect the OP's request and stop responding to the distractions.

Well I cant stop anyone, and even politely request, but get frustrated that in depth discussions or thread development dont happen because of whatabouterry.

I'm suggesting this rather than deliberate highjacking.

I remember, or maybe wrongly, that FWR could be really long, but raised issues and ideas from the starting point of the OP. Rather than, niggle, niggle.

OP posts:
PrizedPickledPopcorn · 27/10/2025 21:43

The thing is, whatever the politics of individuals, science shouldn’t be impacted. So RD’s stance on women’s rights, atheism, fundamentalists of any kind, should not influence his science.

Some science journals have abandoned scientific method for fluffy pieces that prop up their world view. Not science.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 27/10/2025 21:42

CassOle · 27/10/2025 21:27

Are you drunk, Howse?

Nah it's just his standard tedious behaviour - a cross between Kevin the teenager & rik from the young ones

Delphinium20 · 27/10/2025 21:41

Swiftasthewind · 27/10/2025 21:32

Relative to Christianity yes. Obviously secularism is preferable to anything but I’d rather live under an Islamic theocracy than a Christian one.

I'm agnostic, but this is just plain wrong. What Islamic society is even close to being a leader in women's rights? Compare every current Islamic theocracy with every Christian one and it's pretty clear which group averages to be better overall for women (and children). And don't give outliers or historical comparisons like saying being a Muslim woman in 2025 Istanbul is better than being a Jewish woman during the Spanish Inquisition.

JanesLittleGirl · 27/10/2025 21:41

Swiftasthewind · 27/10/2025 21:32

Relative to Christianity yes. Obviously secularism is preferable to anything but I’d rather live under an Islamic theocracy than a Christian one.

England is the closest you can get to a Christian theocracy given that the CoE is the established Church and bishops sit in the HoL as Lords Spiritual. Didn't you notice that the new Archbishop of Canterbury is a woman?

Howseitgoin · 27/10/2025 21:40

Igneococcus · 27/10/2025 21:34

We actually have science (if not Nature) on our side, but I will respect the OP's request and stop responding to the distractions.

Sex being bi/multi modal isn't in least scientifically controversial so no you don't in the way you think

Howseitgoin · 27/10/2025 21:38

JanesLittleGirl · 27/10/2025 21:32

Firstly, what is a 'gender critical'? When did adjectives become nouns?

Secondly, I am not aware of anybody, let alone Gender Critical Radical Feminists, who regards RD as a defender of 'womens rights'. He is a defender of the scientific method.

Firstly, what is a 'gender critical'? When did adjectives become nouns?

"Gender-critical" can informally be used as a noun to mean a person who holds these beliefs. For example, "She is a gender-critical" is understood to mean she is a gender-critical person.

"Secondly, I am not aware of anybody, let alone Gender Critical Radical Feminists, who regards RD as a defender of 'womens rights'. He is a defender of the scientific method.'

https://x.com/RichardDawkins/status/1465324057277173772

Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) on X

Please sign the Declaration on Women’s Sex-based Rights. I have just done so. https://t.co/QmJ1uzNY3k

https://x.com/RichardDawkins/status/1465324057277173772