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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Leading journal accused of abandoning science over ‘social justice agenda’

136 replies

IwantToRetire · 27/10/2025 17:45

A top journal publisher has been accused of abandoning science in favour of a “social justice agenda”.

Nature, which produces several leading science journals, has faced criticism over its position on equality, diversity and inclusion from leading scientists.

Prof Anna Krylov, a professor of chemistry at the University of Southern California, shared an open letter online encouraging fellow scientists to boycott Nature until it “recommits to scientific excellence”.

She said: “The Nature group has abandoned its mission in favour of advancing a social justice agenda.”

She accused it of trying to play identity politics and promote specific demographics instead of focusing on science, which is supposed to be “guided by a commitment to finding objective truth”.

The letter was backed by Prof Richard Dawkins, an expert in evolutionary biology, who said on X: “Nature used to be the world’s most prestigious science journal. Now it’s one of many accused of favouring authors because of their identity group rather than the excellence and importance of their science.”

Full article at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/10/26/bbc-allows-work-from-home-if-worried-about-trans-toilet/

And at https://archive.is/q5JlX

OP posts:
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Namelessnelly · 28/10/2025 07:19

Howseitgoin · 28/10/2025 07:17

Trying to run from you Butler sister?

What??? Are you callling me Butler, saying I have a Butler or saying Butler is my sister? That sentence makes no sense.

Identityoneoff · 28/10/2025 07:18

How refreshing it would be for once to speak with emotionally mature people who can say: Yes, I've changed my body with hormones and surgery, but I still am, biologically, of my sex. I have done it to cope with my intense feelings, but I understand that my sex hasn't changed, and people have the right to think so. I wil be respectful and respected.

Howseitgoin · 28/10/2025 07:17

Namelessnelly · 28/10/2025 07:15

Errr you just contradicted your own argument. Do you want to reroll on a comprehension check?

Trying to run from you Butler sister?

Namelessnelly · 28/10/2025 07:15

Howseitgoin · 28/10/2025 07:07

How to tell everybody you don't understand DSD's without telling them.

The presence of different sex chromosomes can affect the development and function of the gonads. For instance, XXY individuals may have smaller testes that produce fewer sperm. In some cases, individuals may have both ovarian and testicular tissue, but will produce one type of gamete or the other.

Errr you just contradicted your own argument. Do you want to reroll on a comprehension check?

merkinmanipulator · 28/10/2025 07:08

Swiftasthewind · 27/10/2025 21:32

Relative to Christianity yes. Obviously secularism is preferable to anything but I’d rather live under an Islamic theocracy than a Christian one.

@Swiftasthewind your obvious trolling is getting tiresome now.

Howseitgoin · 28/10/2025 07:07

SinnerBoy · 28/10/2025 07:00

Nobody has "different gamete sizes," you monumentally dishonest idiot.

How to tell everybody you don't understand DSD's without telling them.

The presence of different sex chromosomes can affect the development and function of the gonads. For instance, XXY individuals may have smaller testes that produce fewer sperm. In some cases, individuals may have both ovarian and testicular tissue, but will produce one type of gamete or the other.

SinnerBoy · 28/10/2025 07:05

My problem with the critique of research including phenomena that is social justice related is that it assumes that because it is it must be:

My problem with the critique of research including phenomena which are social justice related...

There, fixed that for you, at least.

Howseitgoin · 28/10/2025 07:02

Namelessnelly · 28/10/2025 06:52

But Butler believes men can be women. Have you read her work? You both have the same writing styles so I think you’ll like it.

So you deny gender is socially constructed now? 'Cause that's a fundamental gender critical talking point particularly on MN IE typical gendered behaviour being 'learned'?

SinnerBoy · 28/10/2025 07:00

Howseitgoin · 27/10/2025 22:20

Lol, are you seriously suggesting that there aren't within the reproductive system multiple traits, with variable distributions? IE individuals may possess different combinations of chromosome type, gamete size, hormone level, morphology, and social roles, which do not always align in 'female- and male'-specific ways?

Of course RD correctly assumed gender criticals were either too stupid or too confronted to understand anything beyond oversimplifications & ran with it.
Gotta hand it to him, he knows a useful idiot when he sees one…

Nobody has "different gamete sizes," you monumentally dishonest idiot.

Namelessnelly · 28/10/2025 06:52

Howseitgoin · 28/10/2025 06:18

You realise both Butler & Gender criticals have more in common than you think like gender is a social construct. Oh wait….😂

The ignorance about feminism by so called 'feminists' never disappoints …

Edited

But Butler believes men can be women. Have you read her work? You both have the same writing styles so I think you’ll like it.

Howseitgoin · 28/10/2025 06:18

Namelessnelly · 28/10/2025 06:01

Maaaate. Are you trying to accuse feminists of feminist if wrong? As a man? Mate. No, just no. I know you’re upset women here won’t obey you and believe men can be women but you’re making yourself look a bit dull now. You’ll be quoting Butler at us next.

You realise both Butler & Gender criticals have more in common than you think like gender is a social construct. Oh wait….😂

The ignorance about feminism by so called 'feminists' never disappoints …

Namelessnelly · 28/10/2025 06:01

Howseitgoin · 27/10/2025 21:18

You don't get to exploit the mantle of feminism others built & then shit on it. That you & your hypocritical fellow travellers personally don't care isn't lost on rational people….

Maaaate. Are you trying to accuse feminists of feminist if wrong? As a man? Mate. No, just no. I know you’re upset women here won’t obey you and believe men can be women but you’re making yourself look a bit dull now. You’ll be quoting Butler at us next.

MadelineMardigan · 28/10/2025 03:11

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Howseitgoin · 28/10/2025 02:10

ErrolTheDragon · 28/10/2025 01:52

Based on Reddit…hmmmm indeed. I think you may have proved Krylov’s point. Did you mean to?Confused
What do you think of her piece I linked to?

My problem with the critique of research including phenomena that is social justice related is that it assumes that because it is it must be:

A. Scientifically irrelevant
B. Non scientific
C. Bias

You could say that about Climate Change, Vaccines & many many other areas. That these are politically controversial or not hard sciences doesn't mean they aren't relevant or 'scientific'. Whilst I appreciate the concern over bias that's easily mitigated in peer review, reproducibility & analysis of methodology which wasn't really possible in the examples Kyylov gave of totalitarian regimes. IE its not as if checks & balances don't exist in democratic nations.

My daughter works in cancer research & let me tell you if think the corruption of journals because of social justice is anything to write home about I can assure you there's much worse & its called 'money & prestige in science'.

ErrolTheDragon · 28/10/2025 01:52

Howseitgoin · 28/10/2025 01:41

'Unpopular' conclusions from research = "abandoning science in favour of a “social justice agenda”? Hmmm:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-81567-9

Based on Reddit…hmmmm indeed. I think you may have proved Krylov’s point. Did you mean to?Confused
What do you think of her piece I linked to?

Howseitgoin · 28/10/2025 01:41

IwantToRetire · 27/10/2025 17:45

A top journal publisher has been accused of abandoning science in favour of a “social justice agenda”.

Nature, which produces several leading science journals, has faced criticism over its position on equality, diversity and inclusion from leading scientists.

Prof Anna Krylov, a professor of chemistry at the University of Southern California, shared an open letter online encouraging fellow scientists to boycott Nature until it “recommits to scientific excellence”.

She said: “The Nature group has abandoned its mission in favour of advancing a social justice agenda.”

She accused it of trying to play identity politics and promote specific demographics instead of focusing on science, which is supposed to be “guided by a commitment to finding objective truth”.

The letter was backed by Prof Richard Dawkins, an expert in evolutionary biology, who said on X: “Nature used to be the world’s most prestigious science journal. Now it’s one of many accused of favouring authors because of their identity group rather than the excellence and importance of their science.”

Full article at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/10/26/bbc-allows-work-from-home-if-worried-about-trans-toilet/

And at https://archive.is/q5JlX

'Unpopular' conclusions from research = "abandoning science in favour of a “social justice agenda”? Hmmm:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-81567-9

Women who hate men: a comparative analysis across extremist Reddit communities - Scientific Reports

In the present online social landscape, while misogyny is a well-established issue, misandry remains significantly underexplored. In an effort to rectify this discrepancy and better understand the phenomenon of gendered hate speech, we analyze four ope...

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-81567-9?error=cookies_not_supported&code=79a87f8b-74f7-45ee-a07c-cb0b728cd1a3

ErrolTheDragon · 28/10/2025 01:39

Heggettypeg · 28/10/2025 01:25

Thanks for this. A very interesting article. And a salutary reminder that "cancel culture" is not a recent invention, merely a new name for a very old practice.

Yes. Cancel culture, ad hominem attacks, suppression of real science for the sake of a dogma - she’s seen it all.
I hadn’t quite realised how recently the soviet state was trying to impose politics on science.

Howseitgoin · 28/10/2025 01:29

IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken · 28/10/2025 01:18

You say “considering the damage Christianity has done to women in the West far exceeds that of Islam, which as I understand it is relatively progressive on women’s rights for an Abrahamic based faith”
Now I know you are trolling.

It's not Islam that's directly responsible for the curtailing of reproductive freedom in the US but the Christian right's influence is the point.

Heggettypeg · 28/10/2025 01:25

ErrolTheDragon · 28/10/2025 00:31

I had a look on google scholar to see what sort of work Prof Anna Krylov does … QM software … but found this which illuminates why she is so concerned about Nature policy. (Published by the American Chemical Society, no less)

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acs.jpclett.1c01475

Edited

Thanks for this. A very interesting article. And a salutary reminder that "cancel culture" is not a recent invention, merely a new name for a very old practice.

IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken · 28/10/2025 01:22

Delphinium20 · 27/10/2025 21:41

I'm agnostic, but this is just plain wrong. What Islamic society is even close to being a leader in women's rights? Compare every current Islamic theocracy with every Christian one and it's pretty clear which group averages to be better overall for women (and children). And don't give outliers or historical comparisons like saying being a Muslim woman in 2025 Istanbul is better than being a Jewish woman during the Spanish Inquisition.

Honestly you should see some of the howlers she/he comes out with on other posts.

IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken · 28/10/2025 01:18

Swiftasthewind · 27/10/2025 21:18

I’m not surprised to see accusations of Islamophobia laid at the feet of Richard Dawkins, hasn’t he recently gone on some sort of crusade defending Christianity all of a sudden? A strange angle if true, considering the damage Christianity has done to women in the west far exceeds that of Islam, which as I understand it is relatively progressive on women’s rights for an Abrahamic based faith.

You say “considering the damage Christianity has done to women in the West far exceeds that of Islam, which as I understand it is relatively progressive on women’s rights for an Abrahamic based faith”
Now I know you are trolling.

ErrolTheDragon · 28/10/2025 00:31

I had a look on google scholar to see what sort of work Prof Anna Krylov does … QM software … but found this which illuminates why she is so concerned about Nature policy. (Published by the American Chemical Society, no less)

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acs.jpclett.1c01475

ErrolTheDragon · 28/10/2025 00:06

The OPs link is paywalled I think, and the archive links don’t seem right. This ‘gift’ one may work… maybe we could get back to it
(Ad hominem attacks on someone who supported Prof Krylov’s position aren’t indicative of serious critique of the subject)

Leading journal accused of abandoning science over ‘social justice agenda’
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/3e32b8e30e4e633e

Leading journal accused of abandoning science over ‘social justice agenda’

Publisher criticised for implementing policies that ‘sacrifice merit’ in favour of identity-based criteria

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/3e32b8e30e4e633e

Brefugee · 27/10/2025 23:39

i think we need disclaimers all over FWR. A kind of delete/replace.

For "GC" (or Gender Critical") Delete and replace with "sex realist"

frostedpixie · 27/10/2025 23:33

Howseitgoin · 27/10/2025 21:14

While gender criticals promote RD as a defender of 'women's rights' without scrutiny they will have to wear the fall out. You can't have it both ways.

Given RD's 'record' I suspect his sudden turn to defending women is more about white washing his past with a side of relevance seeking & pay back to the left for being called out for misogyny.

While 'some' gender criticals promote RD as a defender of 'women's rights'

Fixed that for you. We're not the Borg collective.