Livestream debate with Mia Hughes and Morgane Oger

Social distinctions are not the exact same thing as sex based distinctions.

The vast majority of mentally functional adults and children, and even babies, can tell the difference between a man and a woman, regardless of their superficial appearance. Biological and physical clues are hard-wired in for recognition.

I think male people are a bit less adept at this than female people, though. Female safety depends on recognition, whereas it woulds seem that for males there is a tendency to view females through more of a symbolic set of representations and/or body parts. The fact that males are far more prone to fetishes and paraphilias is one symptom of this.

It may also explain why so many males seem to genuinely think they pass just by wearing 'female clothes' and getting silicone implants etc.

Morgane says that he's never seen a teacher tell a child that they are trans. It's hardly surprising, after all, he's got no business being omnipresent in every school in Canada, has he?

Some useful advice I found from another thread, from 2018!:

FermatsTheorem · 30/11/2018 13:54

In the absence of a block/hide poster button, I suggest the following strategy (given that you're talking to the lurkers).

Do not name check the sealion. Instead, respond to a depersonalised paraphrase: "It is sometimes erroneously suggested that blah. Blah is wrong for the following reasons (short and pithy). If you need more information re. debunking blah, here's a link."

Then (this next step is important to combat derailment) go back up thread to the last useful contribution to the discussion, make sure you do name check that contributor, and pick up the discussion from that point.

This has reminded me that it is time I made a donation to the Vancouver Rape Crisis people again.

All this wordage and verbage and the TRAs still can't, and will never, persuade the vast majority of people to believe or agree that trans identifying men are women. What a sad and pointless existence.

What will eventually filter through, I expect, is the inevitable suffering of thousands of children who have been sold a story that if their inner feelings about stereotypes don't match up with arbitrary societal stereotypes, and if they feel unhappy with their bodies and how others treat them, they must be the opposite sex and need medical treatment.

That treatment includes hormones and surgery. The treatments are irreversible, have serious impacts on quality of life, and turn healthy young people into lifelong medical patients.

That issue will only continue to become louder as countries around the world wake up, one by one.

Once the lawsuits start, we will see major shifts.

Howse lives in a universe where the material world has little or no consequence because the meaning that really matters is constructed socially.

Howse’s idea of social reality doesn’t resemble my experience at all. In Howse’s world, people who think they look like women, are perceived by others as women, and because of that they are women and are accepted as women by all but bigots.

In my world, people don’t think that males should compete in the female category in sports regardless of their appearance or self perception. I rarely hear anyone in support of this. I think toilets are focused on because some people are more amenable to sharing this provision than other provision, such as changing rooms or sports. However, if they say transwomen are women in toilets but not in sport, they clearly don’t think transwomen are women.

In my world, transwomen struggle to have intimate partner relationships because if they are gay, few gay men want to date transwomen and if they are straight, few lesbians want to date transwomen. Plus, many transwomen don’t want to date transwomen. Again, this suggests that whatever people say, they do not think TWAW.

Gender non conforming women and women who aren’t concerned about their appearance are highly problematic to certain types of transwomen. They undermine their narrative about what makes someone a women. They can also trigger significant hostility due to rejecting what they desperately want.

He just picks a thread to swamp with his nonsense and repeats it ad nauseam. None of it ever makes sense. It’s why TRAs are losing world over. They speak and everyone sees how empty their arguments are.

So you’re admitting you failed biology at school? Have you considered extra classes?

So you admit. The TRA are colonising women’s spaces. Or trying to. Unfortunately women are saying no, the law is saying no and there’s not a lot you can do about it. Why not spend your time campaigning for more third spaces rather than coming on a feminist board scolding women and mansplaining womanhood to them.

"They will give a shit when their granddaughters are sharing toilets with predators or they lose their place on a team because a boy has the ‘feelz’."

Are the 'predators' in the room with you right now?

"I’m assuming you’re a man because you really have no idea what you’re talking about. Sex is immutable and gender is not"

Translation:
If you don't agree with me you must be a man.

Smells like misogyny…

They will give a shit when their granddaughters are sharing toilets with predators or they lose their place on a team because a boy has the ‘feelz’.
I’m assuming you’re a man because you really have no idea what you’re talking about. Sex is immutable and gender is not.
Go back to your online community with your blue hair and balaclava.

"Being a woman is to be an adult human female."

Circular argument. That doesn't say anything meaningful about what a female is. & is why politicians who don't want to commit either way use it. Which as I have already demonstrated includes but isn't limited to reproductive characteristics because of social distinctions.

"Colonisation is the act of taking over someone's else's territory, oppressing the inhabitants by forbidding the telling of their own history and society and its foundation; manipulating the native language by re-arranging it and imposing your own language and your own concepts of reality onto the native population."

Yes I know & it's exactly what GC's are doing by pretending social distinctions don't exist & have always not existed.

"Being a woman has nothing to do with one's appearance. It is to do with one's sex."

I never said it did. The point is right or wrong society use appearance cues to distinguish men from women.

But given the 'sensitivity to appearance' on this thread one could certainly think GC's do.

You mean women? Being a woman is to be an adult human female.

It is you are your ilk that are the most insidious colonisers. Colonisation is the act of taking over someone's else's territory, oppressing the inhabitants by forbidding the telling of their own history and society and its foundation; manipulating the native language by re-arranging it and imposing your own language and your own concepts of reality onto the native population.

"I’ve spoken to friends and relatives to explain what’s going on with rape crises centres, prisons, sports and they really have no idea. They thought Trudeau was just being kind"

Translation:
They didn't give a shit because 0.5% of the population doesn't affect them. Perhaps they were being #kind by not informing you of your ideological irrelevancy?

Being a woman has nothing to do with one's appearance. It is to do with one's sex.

The point you are trying to make only reveals the utter shallowness of your conception of male and female and how reliant your concept is on superficail and stereotypical presentations ( as well as being really quite misogynistic) After all, as Judith Butler says 'trans' is all about performance and role play.

Do you actually know what a feminist is? I doubt it going by your comments.
Trudeau stood down before he was thrown out. Unfortunately, I don’t think Canadian women have an ally in Carney, given his family circumstances.
As for understanding what was happening with their rights, most Canadian women didn’t have a clue. I’ve spoken to friends and relatives to explain what’s going on with rape crises centres, prisons, sports and they really have no idea. They thought Trudeau was just being kind. 🙄

It only seems like colonisation for those limited by biological essentialism.

No, 'Sex' is entirely a biological category, not a peronality category. That would be the concept of 'gender' and the accompanying stereotypes it encapsulates.

It's a bit rich to talk about colonisation when you are an avid supporter of the colonisation of not only women's spaces, but of femaleness itself.

It’s amazing how someone who has publicly supported a predator like Yaniv is still considered to be an acceptable choice to speak on behalf of trans rights.

Men in women’s rape centres and the right to force women to touch a man’s genitals. And Canada still doesn’t get it.

That cis women aren't interested in a broad protest to their rights being messed with is Ahistorical. I don’t supposed you ever bothered to talk to feminists…you know, the real ones.

Even if what you claim is true which is patently false given the decades of legislative process under gone in Canada, the idea that Canadians of all people don't have any avenues to voice their resistance to government over reach is ludicrous. Even if they don't protest (& they do see COVID), they can vote.

Anyone would think you're talking about Saudi Arabia with this kind of deranged hyperbole.