Virginia Giuffre claims in book she was sexually abused by her father

Sure. I would say trauma is the cause, the action, personality disorder the result. And that can impact those around them, such as their children, in significant ways.

That is on my mind too. I remember reading her Dad had got her, her first job with Epstien. Dropped her off and collected her. Something had made her uncomfortable on day 1, I now know why he took her back for day 2.

I always wondered where the parents were in all this because obviously it's not normal for a 17 year old to be winging about the world in private jets etc.
Make a bit more sense now and I wonder if her dad got financial recompense from Epstein.

@Needspaceforlego "But I almost feel like there is no point in pursuing Andrew further.

Those resources would be much better put into trying to break up today's sex abuse rings that are in the UK that UK police can actually do something about."

I disagree. Andrew needs to be held to account for his crimes, even when his victim is dead.

Were the siblings also abuse victims or just her?

Did they know it was going to come out that her Dad was abuser No1 and 100× worse than any other man involved?
Because HE is the one man who should have protected her.

I wonder if if was the family stuff that pushed her over the edge. I do feel for her. Did she have regrets about writing the book but was too late to pull it?

Suicide is brutal and leaves so many questions.

She was given so much money, she should have been financially secure for life. I hope she was also given some advice on how to use it, ie invest in property, and invest in her MH care.

Her siblings

Who are 'her family' who are so pleased the truth is out in her book when her family are behind much of the damage Virginia suffered.

Are they just after money.

“Claims”? Really?

Its all just so sad. And definitely not something most of us would have thought about, especially not 20 odd years ago.

It does make you wonder what else happened in Ghislains life.

But I almost feel like there is no point in pursuing Andrew further.
Those resources would be much better put into trying to break up today's sex abuse rings that are in the UK that UK police can actually do something about.

The US police don't appear to be interested in tracking down, or pursuing the US men who were also involved.
Who's got the power there?

The way these abuse networks operate is to make victims culpable in the abuse of the next lot of victims, to tie them to the abusers, to make it impossible for them to extract themselves from the whole world of violent sexual abuse.

Tragic. Poor, poor woman, what a tormented soul she must have been.

Abusers and exploiters know exactly how to chose their victims. She never stood a chance.

And I'm not saying Ghislaine Maxwell didn't deserve her comeuppance. She very much did. But isn't it interesting that the only person to be properly, legally held to account over this whole seedy trafficking racket just happens to be a woman?

I experienced similar abuse, grooming at age 15 by three mid-20s men, then father abuse at 17. Yes, of course, if you were confident, sure of yourself and sensible you'd just say no and walk away! but it doesn't work like that. You're desperate for approval and you're not confident and sensible, just very young and vulnerable. I believe everything Virginia has said.

That has crossed my mind two.
It was pointed out Andrew and Gullane are the only two people to be punished for any of it.

Being fair to him, he probably doesn't know the half of it himself.
I still doubt he knew the girls were being trafficking, groomed or pimped.

By the sound of it her Virginia issues were a WHOLE lots deeper than having sex with Andrew 3 times.

Shes also accused of recruiting other young women. That's a ton of guilt that must have messed with her mind too.

I've been reading threads on reddit about this, and I found very very few doubters. Most posts were overwhelmingly supportive.

on the other hand I have seen quite a few unpleasant comments on MN... posters saying VG was willing, she looked happy, she could have left at any time, how do we know any of it is true, etc. It really grates to see comments like this on a site where most posters are women.

I prefer to think of it as “trauma” rather than “personality disorder”.

I think you could be right about Maxwell. There is loads more to this story but I doubt it will ever come out.

Tangentially, though work, I have come into contact with several people - one man and a few women who were sexually abused by parents and grandparents. What I have noticed is they all come across as unreliable. Which is not to say they are - I believe every one of them. But the trauma of abuse means their memories are often fractured, and of course they don't want to talk about it, so they talk around it and often what they tell you is a very minimal or even coy version of what really happened, so it can seem they are making a fuss over nothing or making it up. They also often have hyper reactions and can misread situations that are benign, which also can lead to people not trusting their version of events. And of course there is a certain type of man in particular, but also woman, who simply prefers to believe they are lying and is happy to say so often and loudly.

I think Maxwell knew exactly what type of girl would be malleable. She wasn't going to waste time grooming girls with a strong sense of self-worth and families who would block her invitations. I also wonder if Maxwell herself might well have been abused and cast herself in role of procurer to create a sense of power instead of powerlessness. She had a very odd relationship as her father's favourite and he was an amoral man. Voluntary re-enactment of situations similar to one's own abuse is quite a common reaction.

Oh I just read the archive link. 😔 Wtf. It always blows my mind these predators can do to little girls and when it's your own daughter. Honestly don't understand how they sleep at night or live with themselves. Poor poor Virginia. I hope you're at peace now.

I did wonder why her father who worked at the hotel didn't give a flying fuck when she was spending all that time at 16 working for Epstein at all hours.

I don't think it's uncommon for women who have had experiences like this to be "fantasists," as in, they are suffering from some significant personality disorders as a result of early and prolonged abuse. I think it becomes a way of surviving in such environments by getting others to behave the way you want, but can also be a way of coping psychologically which is when it becomes really dangerous to the abuse victim herself.

It also tends to mean they are really difficult witnesses. Or even difficult if you are a person trying to help someone in a situation like this, because some of what they are telling you won't be reliable, and their way of approaching interactions is manipulative.

There was a case near me a number of years ago where this was a factor. I think the abuse the woman complained of was certainly true, and I think overall the court did as well - but it became clear that she was telling lies in court. And at that point, it is very difficult for a jury to convict. It's not fair really - but at the same time, how can you give a criminal conviction on the basis of testimony from someone who seems to be unreliable?

It's another reasons cases like this are so difficult but I don't really know what the solution is.